Caroline_afifi

Male Belly Dancing Makes Comeback in Egypt, Defying Suppression

Bloomberg, USA
Jan. 2, 2008
Daniel Williams
Bloomberg.com
ReligionNewsBlog
Religion news articles about religious cults, sects, world religions, and related issues

Check this out. There is also a you tube clip of Tarik on this site!

See Tarik, you are very famous!!

Marya

I have heard that in some states in the US the laws that deal with prostitution also regulate dancers in certain clubs which sometimes includes belly dancers, which means the police are involved.

One of the benefits of actually living (for more than a year say) in another country, is that one's own ethnic-centrism is cracked, and the possibility of actually comprehending how one's one culture works is increased by gaining some understanding of another culture, I so appreciate Outi's contributions.

I always like the one about throwing stones, For myself I know that criticizing others just distracts me from my own faults and offers a not-so- good excuse for ignoring them. Its fun, no doubt about it, but counter-productive.

Marya

Marya

I have exactly the same situation here in the tiny rural town in Oregon (US) where I live. The US has just as many issues with gender identity as any other country.

Marya

Aisha Azar

Dear Outi,
This has been my own point in the whole male/female dance issue thing. Western ideas about the male/female relationship are not so far from being very chauvanist themselves in many ways. Yet, we dare to point fingers at other countries who exercise this same thing in their own ways, and we are doubly upset when it comes to men being discriminated against.
There are many big problems everywhere and each country perceives the trouble in other countries to be worse than their's.
As far as men being banned from getting licenses in Egypt, we are now having women being left out dancing in shows outside of Egypt by dancers! I find this far more offensive. We expect governments to misuse their power, but it is far more offensive when dancers do it to each other, as far as I am concerned.
Regards,
A'isha

Tarik Sultan

To shine light on the fact that a certain group is being discriminated against is not the same thing as getting MORE upset about it than if it is happening to another group. This is not some sort of competition where we're trying to prove wether or not Jews or Palestinians have suffered the most. There is no hierarchy when it comes to being the victims of human suffereing or injustice.

This is not a general issues forum. It is dedicated specifically to issues that concern MALE DANCERS. That's why it's called "MALE DANCERS". Its not to say that our issues are more important or deserve more attention than the issues affecting women. They are all of equal importance. Therefore, I feel that my being discriminated against in working options is just as important and WRONG as women being underpaid and disrespected by night club owners. I feel that the issue of women being labeled immoral because they are dancers is just as WRONG as automatically assuming a male dancer is some sort of pervert. They both catty the same weight and are BOTH wrong.

Not all people can understand this however. If one looks at our community from an US vs THEM perspective, then they will see slights where none are intended, perceive threats where none exist and feel threatened when there is no cause for alarm.

As has been stated before by others in this forum who know the individuals concerned far better than me, Serkan produces many shows during the year that are NOT gender specific. This is the first time he has done an all male show. Male dancers are relatively few in number and so having such a show allows the audience to see a minority that is usually very dispersed in one event at one time. It does not mean that from now on he is only doing all male shows. Further more, all male shows have been produced right here in the good old USA, by FEMALE DANCERS. Tamlyn Dallal did one last year and next week Keaish of Belly Queen is doing one in which Mark and I will be featured performers. Kaeishi is a woman and is definitely NOT discriminating against her fellow women any more than Tamlyn Dallal is.

So instead of choosing to be offended, one could simply choose to examine the many reasons why someone would have such events.

Caroline_afifi

[quote=A'isha Azar;73994]Dear Outi,
Do we? how?

Do we?

Zorba

Absolutely! It also shows you how culture is ultimately meaningless. I get all kinds of flak about ignoring and/or flouting culture - mine, "theirs", everyone's. Do I care? Nope. Not my problem. I'm sick and tired of gender based "roles" for anyone/everyone - this type of parochial thinking (that you find EVERYWHERE) needs to go the way of the Dodo bird. GRRRRRR!!

As for "male only" Belly Dance events - I'm not particularly impressed. Not because of perceived discrimination against women (although that certainly can be argued), but because of discrimination against men. We (men) need to and must "compete" (if that's the word for it) with women on an equal footing - retreating into "male only" events only highlights our (perceived) "inferior/different" position. "Separate but equal" was thrown out 40 years ago! Male dancers strutting around and going on about what MEN they are just irritate me...

__________________
-Zorba
"The Veiled Male"
http://www.doubleveil.net
"There is nothing sadder than a veil, that is for sale."

Aisha Azar

[quote=Caroline_afifi;74005]

Dear Caroline,
For example, in this country, female children and women have been molested, raped, etc, by religious figures forever, just as they have been all over the world.. It took the molesting of little boys to bring out this issue in the Catholic church. That is one, very public example of what happens all the time when it comes to discrimination.



Dear Zorba,
Culture is not "ultimately meaningless". It is ingrained in every kind of society, both animal and human, in the entire world. It is the thing that makes it difficult for a dog pack to allow a strange dog in. Culture is so much a part of living on this planet that even insects have it!! It is what gives us our guidance as to how to behave civilly with our fellow humans with whom we live in close proximity. Gender roles often have meaning inside a culture, that may not make sense on the outside, but makes very good sense on the inside.
And, thank you for pointing out some of the issues with all male events that I have also perceived. I predict that this is yet another unhealthy trend in the world of dance that we are seeing develop.
You are a gentleman, as always, even in disagreement! I love that about you.
Regards,
A'isha

Tarik Sultan

The difference with separate and equal was that was made law. You HAD to be separate rather than being separate if you choose to be so. There are times when groups of people need to come together to address concerns that are unique to them. This is why there are therapy and discussion groups that are just for women. As a man I don't feel discriminated against because I understand the context and circumstances that motivate the need.
Likewise, I don't think its fair or valid to slam an all male or all female event. The context and motivation must be considered.

Also to accuse the guys who participate in such an event as STRUTTING around is hypothetical. There are many shows where the theme is in honor of femininity, the priestess etc. Are they strutting around and going on about what WOMEN they are? I don't think so. We have to look at the context and motivation and as a man who teaches women, I can DEFINITELY see the need for women to celebrate who they are AS women, support it and not feel threatened or slighted in any way. When it is the policy of a dance studio or teacher however, that is quite a different thing, but the occasional event? No. It's not the same thing at all.

Caroline_afifi

[quote=A'isha Azar;74011][quote=Caroline_afifi;74005]



Yes, I get this, but dont know how this relates to 'Yet, we Dare to point the finger..' and the rest of it.

Who dared to point the finger?