Tito - Page 5

Aisha Azar · 05-10-2008, 08:14 PM

Then quit acting like you do and quit trying to vilify me just because I don't think the same way you do. Stick to the subject and keep my character out of it, as I have only said to you a hundred times. You go on and on and ON about how discriminated against men are in the is business when in reality, you have it no tougher than the majority of dancers. Don't keep trying to blow my points all out of proportion and quit acting like an ass. You claim that I never try to see anyone else's point of view, but you are the one who is so homophobic, so sure that you are being cheated somehow, so nasty in the way that you phrase things to me, so sure that you need to convince others that I am thinking in a skewed way by making statements like that ridiculous thing about knuckle dragging vikings on the male show post that I can't even begin to figure out how to communicate with you. YOU CAN NOT HEAR ME. You don't seem capable of understanding a damn thing I say. You can not possibly be THAT DENSE and still be able to breathe. You are so busy whining about getting a raw deal in the dance world. Why do you even bother to try to dance in public if its that terrible? Go home and dance in your living room where you can be an audience of one, totally appreciative of whatever you see in the mirror, and no one can stop you from dancing there, or not hire you there. There is something just sick about your behavior because I am one of the few who will not agree with you in public, though believe me, I get plenty of private emails about what as ass you are. ( And yes, I KNOW you get the same about me.) I am quite used to not being agreed with because I am one of those who actually dare to have an opinion and to think about things from a different angle than is the popular one. And I do not generally get abusive about it, as you do the minute you open your mouth in any conversation with me. Get your act together and when you are ready to discuss things rather than to go on and on and ON about the doubtful aspects of me as a human being, then let me know. Until you privately email me and apologize for being a huge jerk who insists on twisting everything I say, then I am not going to read or respond to anything else you write because obviously you can not have a discussion with me without being abusive, ridiculous, and ugly about it. I am so very sorry that the world of belly dance does not laud you the way you obviously think it should, but it certainly is not my fault. I find almost all of your comments based pretty much on what YOU need from the dance rather than at all concerned about what the dance might need from you. You are selfish and immature. I could go on and on, like you do, but that's about enough here.
A'isha Azar

danceswithblades · 05-10-2008, 08:50 PM

who is disturbed that, while this discussion is raging, a banner ad for a
treatment for gynecomastia is scrolling underneath?

As a newbie dancer (but a fan for more than 3 decades) I hope you all can find a way to be at peace with your differences. As a longtime fan, I have only one comment: whatever your gender essence, Dina-butt must go!!! There is nothing authentic about it; it was originally a mildly comic move that took on a life of its own. Belongs in the Museum of Ill-conceived Choreograpy, along with steamy floor routines, etc.

(And no, floor work did not originate in the slave markets of olden time; female slaves were rape victims and not competitors for male attention. Sorry, Carolyn. Think American travelling circus, the origin of a lot of Amcab)

Apologies for my bluntness: you are all well-known teachers and I am nobody in the world of dance, but I am a linguist and historian in my own right.

Aisha Azar · 05-10-2008, 09:40 PM

Dear Danceswithblades,

Quote:

Originally Posted by danceswithblades

who is disturbed that, while this discussion is raging, a banner ad for a
treatment for gynecomastia is scrolling underneath?

To be frank, I do not usually look at the ads below the the discussions.... Perhaps I should.

Quote:

As a newbie dancer (but a fan for more than 3 decades) I hope you all can find a way to be at peace with your differences.

When I started dancing 34 years ago, it was pretty much like this, except in person with friends rather than out in the open. In the open, people pretty much argued the issues and not personalities, etc. We had no net and we did letters to editors of dance mags, and forums based on discussion of this or that dance issue. In some ways though there was a lot of back stabbing, etc, at least on the surface, things SEEMED more civil. ( They were not, but appearances were deceiving. You would hear some big name person just run someone else through the muck and then smile hugely at them when they ran into them somewhere. It was just as bizarre as this; maybe more so.

Quote:

As a longtime fan, I have only one comment: whatever your gender essence, Dina-butt must go!!! There is nothing authentic about it; it was originally a mildly comic move that took on a life of its own. Belongs in the Museum of Ill-conceived Choreograpy, along with steamy floor routines, etc.

It might work..... on Dina..... but other than that, I think I agree.

Quote:

(And no, floor work did not originate in the slave markets of olden time; female slaves were rape victims and not competitors for male attention. Sorry, Carolyn. Think American travelling circus, the origin of a lot of Amcab)

I don't think I can respond to this as I am not sure what it is about, and it looks addressed to Carolyn. I did see a statement somewhere in another part of the forum about circuses and Am Cab. I took it with a grain of salt and moved on as I can see where it might or might not have validity.

Quote:

Apologies for my bluntness: you are all well-known teachers and I am nobody in the world of dance, but I am a linguist and historian in my own right.

If you are involved in the world of dance, then you are someone here in your own right. A linguistic and historical background have validity in this world also, as long as you are able to see dance in other than academic as its sole
perspective!
Welcome to the world of Middle Eastern dance, warts and beauty marks, both.
Regards,
A'isha

Tarik Sultan · 05-11-2008, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A'isha Azar

Then quit acting like you do and quit trying to vilify me just because I don't think the same way you do. Stick to the subject and keep my character out of it, as I have only said to you a hundred times. You go on and on and ON about how discriminated against men are in the is business when in reality, you have it no tougher than the majority of dancers. Don't keep trying to blow my points all out of proportion and quit acting like an ass. You claim that I never try to see anyone else's point of view, but you are the one who is so homophobic, so sure that you are being cheated somehow, so nasty in the way that you phrase things to me, so sure that you need to convince others that I am thinking in a skewed way by making statements like that ridiculous thing about knuckle dragging vikings on the male show post that I can't even begin to figure out how to communicate with you. YOU CAN NOT HEAR ME. You don't seem capable of understanding a damn thing I say. You can not possibly be THAT DENSE and still be able to breathe. You are so busy whining about getting a raw deal in the dance world. Why do you even bother to try to dance in public if its that terrible? Go home and dance in your living room where you can be an audience of one, totally appreciative of whatever you see in the mirror, and no one can stop you from dancing there, or not hire you there. There is something just sick about your behavior because I am one of the few who will not agree with you in public, though believe me, I get plenty of private emails about what as ass you are. ( And yes, I KNOW you get the same about me.) I am quite used to not being agreed with because I am one of those who actually dare to have an opinion and to think about things from a different angle than is the popular one. And I do not generally get abusive about it, as you do the minute you open your mouth in any conversation with me. Get your act together and when you are ready to discuss things rather than to go on and on and ON about the doubtful aspects of me as a human being, then let me know. Until you privately email me and apologize for being a huge jerk who insists on twisting everything I say, then I am not going to read or respond to anything else you write because obviously you can not have a discussion with me without being abusive, ridiculous, and ugly about it. I am so very sorry that the world of belly dance does not laud you the way you obviously think it should, but it certainly is not my fault. I find almost all of your comments based pretty much on what YOU need from the dance rather than at all concerned about what the dance might need from you. You are selfish and immature. I could go on and on, like you do, but that's about enough here.
A'isha Azar

Dear forum:

As A'isha is not reading this this is really directed at all of you. Those of you who understand where I'm coming from as well as those of you who believe I am an ass, immature, whatever. You can be assured of the fact that I don't need all of you to agree with me in public. The only thing I ask of you in a conversation is that you actually hear me out and not play games and take things I say out of context and twist them around. The only reason why my posts are usually so damn long is because I try very hard to make sure A'isha understands me or has no room to twist what I have to say. Why, because believe it or not, there are a lot of things that I do like about her... even now...believe it or not. My attitude with her is built up over yeeeeears of interacting with her and hence my tone.
Well finally you've come out with it. God what took you so long. The problem that I have with you is that I'm frustrated. I do listen to what you say, I do understand your point of view on many things and am constantly saying so, but you don't seem to acknowledge that. The 2nd to last straw was when you asked me to describe all the different types of male dances, which I did, then side tracked it deliberately when I said I knew the clips I showed were not Oriental. When you come back and tell me that when I already did, am I supposed to believe that you are listening and trying to understand? Nooo.

As for my whining about what I'm not getting. I was simply trying to show that, yes, there is a problem out there. The only reason why I keep harping on it is because you keep denying it, so I keep trying to make myself understood. As I said before, is it so hard to just say, I understand your point of view, or I understand where you're coming from, instead of trying to make me out to look like I don't know what I'm talking about or that I'm self delusional or that I have an agenda? Is it possible to entertain the slightest possibility that there can be two points of view on a topic and that in many cases it's not that one is right and the other wrong, but that they both have elements of truth? THAT'S WHAT BURNS MY ASS WHERE YOU ARE CONCERNED WHEN IT COMES TO TRYING TO DISCUSS ANYTHING WITH YOU. And that's when I become an immature ass. And you know what? You're right there with me. At least I can admit where I have hang ups and admit that it's my problem that I need to get over.

As for dancing in my living room, I do, but thank god I also get to share it with appreciative audiences. Do I get as much work as I would like, HELL NO, but you know what? I do have work and I am grateful for what I do have and things are getting better. They are a lot better than they use to be and are getting better despite the problems.

My worse crime is wasting my time and energy trying to engage a person who time and time again has demonstrated that she is not interested in having a discussion or trying to understand, but to sit and pontificate as if no one else can come close to her because they don't have her very special "Arab Friends".

I may be immature at times, I may be an ass at.... okay on many occasions... But you know what? I'm also honest and caring and sharing. An I give all that I have to my students and anyone I meet as much as I can and anyone who has ever taken a class with me or a seminar can vouch for that. So if you don't want to talk to me...well fine. It's not exactly like you even bother to read anything I ever have to say in the first place. So, I'll stop wasting everyones time now. I do apologize for my pages long of posts and for playing this out in public, but I wanted as always to be understood . I am human after all and I am still learning. Lesson learned: WHEN SOMEONE DEMONSTRATES THAT THEY DON'T CARE TO UNDERSTAND YOU, LEAVE IT BE AND MOVE ON. DO NOT WASTE YOUR AND OTHER PEOPLE'S TIME BY BEATING AROUND THE BUSH TRYING TO FIND SOMETHING THAT IS NOT THERE. So I apologize to you and promise I will be wiser and more mature in this respect in the future.

Tarik

Tarik Sultan · 05-11-2008, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danceswithblades

who is disturbed that, while this discussion is raging, a banner ad for a
treatment for gynecomastia is scrolling underneath?

As a newbie dancer (but a fan for more than 3 decades) I hope you all can find a way to be at peace with your differences. As a longtime fan, I have only one comment: whatever your gender essence, Dina-butt must go!!! There is nothing authentic about it; it was originally a mildly comic move that took on a life of its own. Belongs in the Museum of Ill-conceived Choreograpy, along with steamy floor routines, etc.

(And no, floor work did not originate in the slave markets of olden time; female slaves were rape victims and not competitors for male attention. Sorry, Carolyn. Think American travelling circus, the origin of a lot of Amcab)

Apologies for my bluntness: you are all well-known teachers and I am nobody in the world of dance, but I am a linguist and historian in my own right.

I beg to differ you are a person in the dance community and just because you don't have "A Name" does not mean your opinions or point of view carries any less weight or validity. Everyone has something to contribute.

taheya · 05-11-2008, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A'isha Azar

Then quit acting like you do and quit trying to vilify me just because I don't think the same way you do. Stick to the subject and keep my character out of it, as I have only said to you a hundred times. You go on and on and ON about how discriminated against men are in the is business when in reality, you have it no tougher than the majority of dancers. Don't keep trying to blow my points all out of proportion and quit acting like an ass. You claim that I never try to see anyone else's point of view, but you are the one who is so homophobic, so sure that you are being cheated somehow, so nasty in the way that you phrase things to me, so sure that you need to convince others that I am thinking in a skewed way by making statements like that ridiculous thing about knuckle dragging vikings on the male show post that I can't even begin to figure out how to communicate with you. YOU CAN NOT HEAR ME. You don't seem capable of understanding a damn thing I say. You can not possibly be THAT DENSE and still be able to breathe. You are so busy whining about getting a raw deal in the dance world. Why do you even bother to try to dance in public if its that terrible? Go home and dance in your living room where you can be an audience of one, totally appreciative of whatever you see in the mirror, and no one can stop you from dancing there, or not hire you there. There is something just sick about your behavior because I am one of the few who will not agree with you in public, though believe me, I get plenty of private emails about what as ass you are. ( And yes, I KNOW you get the same about me.) I am quite used to not being agreed with because I am one of those who actually dare to have an opinion and to think about things from a different angle than is the popular one. And I do not generally get abusive about it, as you do the minute you open your mouth in any conversation with me. Get your act together and when you are ready to discuss things rather than to go on and on and ON about the doubtful aspects of me as a human being, then let me know. Until you privately email me and apologize for being a huge jerk who insists on twisting everything I say, then I am not going to read or respond to anything else you write because obviously you can not have a discussion with me without being abusive, ridiculous, and ugly about it. I am so very sorry that the world of belly dance does not laud you the way you obviously think it should, but it certainly is not my fault. I find almost all of your comments based pretty much on what YOU need from the dance rather than at all concerned about what the dance might need from you. You are selfish and immature. I could go on and on, like you do, but that's about enough here.
A'isha Azar

Men most definately are discriminated against in bellydance you cannot deny that.. and you cannot compare the discrimination women face with what men face in the dance.

Tarik Sultan · 05-11-2008, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taheya

Men most definately are discriminated against in bellydance you cannot deny that.. and you cannot compare the discrimination women face with what men face in the dance.

That's all I'm trying to say. I'm not asking anyone to fix it. The only reason I kept going on and on was because I was trying to get the point across. And no, I'm not resentful of female dancers, it's not their fault now is it? In fact, without their help none of us would have careers now would we?

Dipali · 05-11-2008, 03:47 AM

Tarik and Aisha,

Are you guys sure you are not married to each other for 50 years?

Holly cow.

Tarik Sultan · 05-11-2008, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dipali

Tarik and Aisha,

Are you guys sure you are not married to each other for 50 years?

Holly cow.

....No. I think it's more like I killed her cow in a previous life or something.....

Shanazel · 05-11-2008, 06:22 AM

So barbeque the critter already, and we'll all to bring side dishes to the official burying of the hatchet that killed it.

Thanks for the new videos of Tito. I hadn't seen the second one.

Quote:

I just am so tired of the whole Pop/lock style that even on a good dancer, it seems very shallow and mundane.

Absolutely. Sometimes I think if one more dancer pops one more muscle at me I am going to shriek like the Red Queen.

05-10-2008, 08:14 PM	#41 (permalink)
Aisha Azar Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Pacific Northwest USA Posts: 4,058	Pity Then quit acting like you do and quit trying to vilify me just because I don't think the same way you do. Stick to the subject and keep my character out of it, as I have only said to you a hundred times. You go on and on and ON about how discriminated against men are in the is business when in reality, you have it no tougher than the majority of dancers. Don't keep trying to blow my points all out of proportion and quit acting like an ass. You claim that I never try to see anyone else's point of view, but you are the one who is so homophobic, so sure that you are being cheated somehow, so nasty in the way that you phrase things to me, so sure that you need to convince others that I am thinking in a skewed way by making statements like that ridiculous thing about knuckle dragging vikings on the male show post that I can't even begin to figure out how to communicate with you. YOU CAN NOT HEAR ME. You don't seem capable of understanding a damn thing I say. You can not possibly be THAT DENSE and still be able to breathe. You are so busy whining about getting a raw deal in the dance world. Why do you even bother to try to dance in public if its that terrible? Go home and dance in your living room where you can be an audience of one, totally appreciative of whatever you see in the mirror, and no one can stop you from dancing there, or not hire you there. There is something just sick about your behavior because I am one of the few who will not agree with you in public, though believe me, I get plenty of private emails about what as ass you are. ( And yes, I KNOW you get the same about me.) I am quite used to not being agreed with because I am one of those who actually dare to have an opinion and to think about things from a different angle than is the popular one. And I do not generally get abusive about it, as you do the minute you open your mouth in any conversation with me. Get your act together and when you are ready to discuss things rather than to go on and on and ON about the doubtful aspects of me as a human being, then let me know. Until you privately email me and apologize for being a huge jerk who insists on twisting everything I say, then I am not going to read or respond to anything else you write because obviously you can not have a discussion with me without being abusive, ridiculous, and ugly about it. I am so very sorry that the world of belly dance does not laud you the way you obviously think it should, but it certainly is not my fault. I find almost all of your comments based pretty much on what YOU need from the dance rather than at all concerned about what the dance might need from you. You are selfish and immature. I could go on and on, like you do, but that's about enough here. A'isha Azar

05-10-2008, 08:50 PM	#42 (permalink)
danceswithblades Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: USA Posts: 46	Am I the only one...? who is disturbed that, while this discussion is raging, a banner ad for a treatment for gynecomastia is scrolling underneath? As a newbie dancer (but a fan for more than 3 decades) I hope you all can find a way to be at peace with your differences. As a longtime fan, I have only one comment: whatever your gender essence, Dina-butt must go!!! There is nothing authentic about it; it was originally a mildly comic move that took on a life of its own. Belongs in the Museum of Ill-conceived Choreograpy, along with steamy floor routines, etc. (And no, floor work did not originate in the slave markets of olden time; female slaves were rape victims and not competitors for male attention. Sorry, Carolyn. Think American travelling circus, the origin of a lot of Amcab) Apologies for my bluntness: you are all well-known teachers and I am nobody in the world of dance, but I am a linguist and historian in my own right.

05-11-2008, 03:47 AM	#48 (permalink)
Dipali Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sunshine coast,Australia Posts: 765	Tarik and Aisha, Are you guys sure you are not married to each other for 50 years? Holly cow. __________________ Australian Belly dance store - Belly Dance Costumes, Bollywood & Tribal outfits. Last edited by Dipali; 05-11-2008 at 03:53 AM.