Jamil is not a real Bellydancer - Page 8

Caroline_afifi · 06-07-2008, 05:05 PM

Yes, I agree with all of that too.

A'isha the bit I did not make myself clear on was..
I was thinking that some people need to be on a stage first (or in the spotlight) and what they do up there in terms of dance is secondry.

I dont perform as much as I used to as it takes so much preparation. Some gigs you can 'busk' and experience allows you to improvise etc. but too many jump on a dance floor and busk their way through a piece. I can only come to the conclusion that this is perhaps driven by something other than the music and dance. That is also what I meant as using this dance as a vehicle. There is no license to say you cant drive!

Yes, this is a dance connected to sex but it is also connected to 'joy' not just the 'joy of sex'.
I do feel this dance is often victim to blatent exhibitionism with no depth or meaning beyond the ego. It veers towards the art of masturbation in extreme cases.

PS I think this discussion is in the wrong place as it is now tied up in a thread with another dancers name in it!!! sorry, can we move it??

Tarik Sultan · 06-07-2008, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caroline_afifi

Yes, I agree with all of that too.

A'isha the bit I did not make myself clear on was..
I was thinking that some people need to be on a stage first (or in the spotlight) and what they do up there in terms of dance is secondry.

I dont perform as much as I used to as it takes so much preparation. Some gigs you can 'busk' and experience allows you to improvise etc. but too many jump on a dance floor and busk their way through a piece. I can only come to the conclusion that this is perhaps driven by something other than the music and dance. That is also what I meant as using this dance as a vehicle. There is no license to say you cant drive!

Yes, this is a dance connected to sex but it is also connected to 'joy' not just the 'joy of sex'.
I do feel this dance is often victim to blatent exhibitionism with no depth or meaning beyond the ego. It veers towards the art of masturbation in extreme cases.

PS I think this discussion is in the wrong place as it is now tied up in a thread with another dancers name in it!!! sorry, can we move it??

Sure, go ahead, we'll follow you.

Caroline_afifi · 06-07-2008, 10:52 PM

any suggestions where I can put it?

Mara2 · 06-08-2008, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A'isha Azar

Dear Mara,
Yeah, I am about sick of the premise that any movement combination with pops/locks must be "Egyptian". But.... that is what they are being told in most classes. It is getting so that in many classes any clean, sharp movement is referred to as "Egyptian" when in fact, many dancers are dancing western fusion styles with a few Egyptian accents. Unfortunately they are told that it is Egyptian. The style has none of the spirit or essence of Egyptian belly dance, but that does not seem to matter. Zahra Soheir is one of my favorite dancers. I hope to see you dance some day. I live in Spokane so it is highly possible we will meet at some point.
Regards,
A'isha

You know, that whole pop and lock thing...don't they realize that's from American street dancing?? Easy to check the history on that business. Certainly NOT bellydance. Yikes :O The crisp movement reminds me of something my teacher said. She told me, "A LOT of soup and a LITTLE spice", and she was ALWAYS yelling at me, "[move] like water!", so that's how I dance. lol There are so damned many moves there's no way a person could do all of them in one dance...probably not even in 10 dances, really. Besides, most people never do all of them because they don't like certain ones (raises hand), and you get into a groove with certain moves (raises hand again). Like Nagwa said, "...there are many brilliant moves." I have to agree with her. I really hope to get together with you soon! We're finally moving into my dream home (only took 2 years lol), and when we settle I'll have much more time for dance and socializing again. I'm really looking forward to meeting you. I haven't been to Spokane in years too.

Warm Wishes,

tegan

Aisha Azar · 06-08-2008, 02:09 AM

Dear Caroline,

Quote:

A'isha the bit I did not make myself clear on was..
I was thinking that some people need to be on a stage first (or in the spotlight) and what they do up there in terms of dance is secondry.

Yes, that makes perfect sense and I think it is seen a lot especially in cross cultural artistic pursuits because it seems easier to get away with then. The words that I have heard often are, "No one knows what I am supposed to be doing anyway so it does not matter." In my students I try to in still the opposite approach. In other words, since you never know WHO is going to be in your audience, assume every person out there knows more than you about what you are doing.

Quote:

Some gigs you can 'busk' and experience allows you to improvise etc. but too many jump on a dance floor and busk their way through a piece. I can only come to the conclusion that this is perhaps driven by something other than the music and dance. That is also what I meant as

Quote:

using this dance as a vehicle. There is no license to say you cant drive!

Agreed

Quote:

Yes, this is a dance connected to sex but it is also connected to 'joy' not just the 'joy of sex'. I do feel this dance is often victim to blatent exhibitionism with no depth or meaning beyond the ego. It veers towards the art of masturbation in extreme cases.

I think that the dance is connected to lots of different human elements, of which sex and joy are just two. but, yes when it becomes only about superficial concepts in sexuality, a lot is not there that should be in order to make it dance.

Quote:

PS I think this discussion is in the wrong place as it is now tied up in a thread with another dancers name in it!!! sorry, can we move it??

[/quote]

Not sure who is in charge of making that decision. It seems a natural outcome of the present conversation to me, but if its moved, no harm done.
Regards,
A'isha

Aisha Azar · 06-08-2008, 02:19 AM

Dear Mara,

Quote:

[

Quote:

QUOTE=Mara2;75821]You know, that whole pop and lock thing...don't they realize that's from American street dancing?? Easy to check the history on that business. Certainly NOT bellydance.

I think I disagree with this, in that there are pops and locks in authentic belly dance of Egyptian, Lebanese and Turkish variety,but they are not what the dance is ALL about. It is physically more about rubbing textures in movement together much the same way that the music does; interpreting a driving drum with sharp retorts against the smoothness of a violin, etc. ( I hope that makes sense). The problem today is that a lot of dancers are making it LOOK like break dance instead of belly dance. Many have no concept of creating texture with their movements, to do anything other than hard, sharp movement that never stops and never gives the mind and eye a rest.We are in agreement there. I saw a lot of that at Nile Festival in April, and I guess I was rather surprised.....

Quote:

Yikes :O The crisp movement reminds me of something my teacher said. She told me, "A LOT of soup and a LITTLE spice", and she was ALWAYS yelling at me, "[move] like water!", so that's how I dance. lol There are so damned many moves there's no way a person could do all of them in one dance...probably not even in 10 dances, really. Besides, most people never do all of them because they don't like certain ones (raises hand), and you get into a groove with certain moves (raises hand again). Like Nagwa said, "...there are many brilliant moves." I have to agree with her.

I think there are many brilliant variations on movement and many fascinating ways to put layers of movement together, too, but I think what happens in the west fairly often is that people disconnect the movement aspect of the dance from every other element that it takes to make it dance and not just a complex form of physical exercise.

Quote:

I really hope to get together with you soon! We're finally moving into my dream home (only took 2 years lol), and when we settle I'll have much more time for dance and socializing again. I'm really looking forward to meeting you. I haven't been to Spokane in years too.

I hope it happens soon and best wishes in your new dream home!! How exciting!!!!!
Regards,
A'isha

Warm Wishes,

tegan

Tarik Sultan · 06-08-2008, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caroline_afifi

any suggestions where I can put it?

I guess the PERFORMANCE forum would be a good place as any as we're talking about why people dance. What do you think? I'll follow, just let me know where you're going.

Caroline_afifi · 06-08-2008, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarik Sultan

I guess the PERFORMANCE forum would be a good place as any as we're talking about why people dance. What do you think? I'll follow, just let me know where you're going.

I will move it to performance as suggested and open a thread called..
The moved thread

chryssanthi sahar · 06-11-2008, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maria_Aya

Well some are not lazy lol
On 30 May we did a show dedicated to Smyrnh (Ismir) and Konstantinoupoli (Istanbul) and old greek tsiftetelia songs, we coworked with the association of Minor Asia of Heliopolis and had a fantastic show with big attentance and also we are booked to do the same show from fall in 3 different associations in Athens...
Just I havent got time to upload anything yet still on rehearshals for new show

kisses

Yes dear, but as long as you haven't uploaded videos of your show in youtube, nobody knows about the show, so the only serious videos you still see about Tsifteteli there are mine

chryssanthi sahar · 06-11-2008, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarik Sultan

I'm glad to know things are getting better than they were a few years ago. Every time I saw a picture of a Greek guy they were topless and wearing a woman's chiffon skirt and worse of all they couldn't dance a lick! Like this guy:

Just looks weird.

Haha, the person who put this video in youtube is making fun of it

As long you see only the back of the dancer, it is asked in Greek letters: Aishe? Farme? Nazli? (female Middle Eastern names). When the dancer turns, is written: Mitsos!(typical Greek male name)

I think I met this guy at Serkan's workshop in Athens, but I didn't really watch how he danced, because I was too busy following the Roman Havasi techniques Serkan showed us

06-07-2008, 05:05 PM	#71 (permalink)
Caroline_afifi V.I.P. Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Liverpool UK Posts: 1,285	Yes, I agree with all of that too. A'isha the bit I did not make myself clear on was.. I was thinking that some people need to be on a stage first (or in the spotlight) and what they do up there in terms of dance is secondry. I dont perform as much as I used to as it takes so much preparation. Some gigs you can 'busk' and experience allows you to improvise etc. but too many jump on a dance floor and busk their way through a piece. I can only come to the conclusion that this is perhaps driven by something other than the music and dance. That is also what I meant as using this dance as a vehicle. There is no license to say you cant drive! Yes, this is a dance connected to sex but it is also connected to 'joy' not just the 'joy of sex'. I do feel this dance is often victim to blatent exhibitionism with no depth or meaning beyond the ego. It veers towards the art of masturbation in extreme cases. PS I think this discussion is in the wrong place as it is now tied up in a thread with another dancers name in it!!! sorry, can we move it??

06-07-2008, 10:52 PM	#73 (permalink)
Caroline_afifi V.I.P. Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Liverpool UK Posts: 1,285	any suggestions where I can put it?