Kharis

Arms are THE most difficult part of the body to control. Mine took ages.

Mara2

OMG...this jumped out at me major. I know it's off the topic, but I am sooooo sick and tired of other dancers telling me what I dance isn't Egyptian. Though this is what I was trained in exclusively in the 70's, by my teacher who lived in Egypt from childhood (she's Bolivian by birth) and was hand-picked by my father (who was half Persian and also lived in Turkey, North Africa, etal, for nearly 20 years from the early 1940's-late 1950's). It's a bitter pill to swallow from people who are full caucasion, and learn from multiple teachers/workshops/etal. Ya know? Ok, I'll take my lumps for speaking my mind, damn me.

Mara2

If you begin by raising the shoulders and keeping the arms away from your body, it's not too bad when you begin using them later. It's sort of the chewing gum walking down the street thing. It's harder for women to take up that space, I think, because we're taught to hold our arms and legs in, close to our bodies.

Aisha Azar

Dear Mara,
I think that dancing in any specific style has less to do with who we are taught by in some ways, and more to do with who we are as human beings. I think the style we dance in can be somewhat influenced by who our teachers are, but also it is influenced by who we are. I think dancers in any specific style are sort of born with that in them already, and it buds and blossoms into what we are as dancers. No matter how hard I try, I will never be a great Lebanese dancer or a fabulous Tribal style dancer It simply is not in me. I feel fortunate to have started my studies with Arabs, and the Egyptian style is right for me, but I think that is partly because of who I am and not only because I started with Arab teachers. I think had I started with say, Turkish teachers, I still would not be able to do that style in anything resembling great Turkish belly dance, because it is not in me. I work right now to perfect Rom, but Turkish belly dance has some spark that I can not really locate in my own soul. I may find five years down the road that I will never be a great Rom dancer, either, and I sincerely wish it could be otherwise, but in order to be real and honest with the dance and to do my best by it, I have to be real with the fact that I will not be great at all forms of the dance. I have never seen you dance and you could very well be a fantastic Egyptian style dancer, so please know that this is not aimed specifically at your dancing, but as a thing for us all to think about. Dipping one's toe in the Nile does not necessarily make one a good Egyptian dancer, but if it is inside you, then it can certainly happen! The best example I can think of is Sahra Kent, who was strictly a mediocre American cabaret dancer when compared to many of the great ones. Then she went to Egypt and came back, having found her real dance soul connection, and she is FANTASTIC!!!!!!!!! She is also a truly lovely person in her heart.
Regards,
A'isha

chryssanthi sahar

Haha, I can see that you've been very busy My trip was fine, but kind of tiring, 'cause I traveled a lot. But it was nice to be in good old Japan again.

Stavros book is the only real research on Tsifteteli and male belly dance in Greece. Well, he refers also to some subjects that are difficult to understand for none Greeks, but he's done a really good job in general. He is also a very good dancer (and good friend of mine. Well, I admit I have many friends among the male belly dancers, because, opposite to some other persons here, I'm not afraid that they are going to overthrow the female regime in the belly dance kingdom)
As about youtube and Tsifteteli: honey, do as much research as you want, you won't find much except my videos and the videos of my students. My fellow country people are kind of lazy, they don't put Tsifteteli videos on youtube (except some silly ones)

__________________
Oriental dancer and instructor of Greek origin, living in Germany
www.chryssanthi.com

Tarik Sultan

I have to admit I found most of the book hard to follow. The last part I though was the most clear where he was talking about Greece's relationship to the east and west and how that influenced their feelings towards the aspects of their culture that were the most Eastern.

Funny thing is that there was a similar reactionary backlash in Turkey with Attaturk trying to get rid of anything that was Arab in origin or of the Ottoman culture. I've even encountered the same attitude amongst Palestinians. One good thing though is that the Kocheks have resurfaced and they are everywhere. Seems that the new generation is rediscovering and taking pride in their Ottoman past.

One thing I though about though. Do you think the reason so many of the male dancers are so flamboyantly gay is in reaction to what Stavros talks about? Do you think for them its a kind of political/social statement against the right wing mentality?

lizaj

Did you mean you fear that won't overthrow the female regime or you know they will?

I think males are are well on the way to acceptance thanks to Khaled, Shafeek and Ozgen. Male teachers have always been acceptable but it's as performers they now also are by many dancers. I agree not all!

It will be interesting hear the debate at the Liverpool Arabic Arts Festival:


Bellies on the Brain?
Saturday 19 July 2008, 11am – 5pm, £30/25
An intelligent and provocative look at the global explosion of 'belly dance' and the diverse and complex issues surrounding this ancient art form. Speakers include Caroline Afifi, Venus Saleh, Wendy Buonaventura, Khaled Mahmoud and Shafeek Ibrahim.

But I am am feeling bad : Phone call last night:

Male voice "Hello..er...er...is it mainly women who come to your classes?"

Me "Yes it is mainly but...."(caller rings off)

I want him to ring back and I'll say: go to the Liverpool Arabic Arts Festival watch the show with Khaled Mahmoud and Shafeek Ibrahim, take Khaled's workshop and if you're duly inspired come back to me!
He's obviously either a very nervous perv or a very nervous sincere young man...not easy to tell over the phone and he'll have to get over it to be any good at either!

Caroline_afifi

You can also add Shira to the list above too.

This year is just a pilot to see how it goes.
All being well, we will make it even bigger and better next year wirh plenty of topics to dicuss..

Mara2

I think your premise is good. The style I was taught in is very old-school, so the only ones who normally recognize it are Egyptians and other dancers trained in it. Not very many, really. Since Egyptian can be interpreted so very many ways, and I prefer to dance slow for the most part (my style resembles most closely Zahra Zuhair's with not so many turns like she does), only dancers who've been trained in Egyptian actually know what I'm doing. I use my arm movements in the old way, and some have said it is interpretive when it's actually traditional. So, I get unhappy sometimes about that. That said, I have been pulled aside a couple times by older dancers, and a couple younger ones, who recognize and ask me to do a workshop or teach them. It's just that I get mad when someone who isn't that experienced in the dance makes a snap decision, based on what I don't know, that I'm not dancing Egyptian. I mean, I've been doing this for 30+ years. :O

Aisha Azar

Dear Mara,
Yeah, I am about sick of the premise that any movement combination with pops/locks must be "Egyptian". But.... that is what they are being told in most classes. It is getting so that in many classes any clean, sharp movement is referred to as "Egyptian" when in fact, many dancers are dancing western fusion styles with a few Egyptian accents. Unfortunately they are told that it is Egyptian. The style has none of the spirit or essence of Egyptian belly dance, but that does not seem to matter. Zahra Soheir is one of my favorite dancers. I hope to see you dance some day. I live in Spokane so it is highly possible we will meet at some point.
Regards,
A'isha