Tarik Sultan

Dear Jamil: I think everyone understands what you were saying regarding constructive criticism. You would have preferred that people gave you feed back about your arms directly so you could have gotten the input.

There are some people on this list, (not mentioning any names...) who claim to support male dancers, but they are rather selective about who they believe to be or not be Oriental as versus Baladi dancers. Said person told me that I was a Baladi Dancer because I lack feminine essence, yet they just stated they consider you an Oriental Dancer. I find this odd because from looking at all the clips you have, you don't seem to have any more "feminine essence" than I do. You look like a guy dancing. well go figure.

I recently had a dust up with said individual who got all bent out of shape because Serkan is doing an all male show. she thinks its sexist as it excludes women and will harm Oriental dance. She's unaware of the fact obviously that there have been all male shows in Europe for at least the last ten years. Apparently so much harm has been caused that she JUST found out about this ONE show that hasn't even happened yet.

She went even farther by declaring she will never work with anyone, male or female who has sponsored an all male show. I find this odd because her very good friend Mark Balahadia danced in an all male show in which I took part last week. She's still talking to him and plans to present him in a workshop. So I guess in her book its okay for her to bend the rules for whom she feels is worthy.

Now she's taken issue with you over NOTHING. Do not expect logic or to be able to achieve understanding with said person. Believe me, I've been trying for probably close to 10 yrs, literally until I finally had enough and told her point blank she was full of it, which is why she pretends not to read my posts. So be it. Just be aware that when it comes to this person there is the real world, where people understand that there can be many views and opinions on a subject and they can ALL be true, and there is her world where there is only one truth and unless she has seen it herself or been told by her very special Arab friends, it isn't true and you are deluded if you present evidence to the contrary or if you dare expand on the situation. Rest assured the fact that you ARE Arab and that you also have Arab friends AND FAMILY will account for little because neither you, your family or your friends have descended from Saudi Arab heaven where all knowledge of all things dance originate.

chryssanthi sahar

Isn't it what she permanently does? Taking issues over nothing!

Haha, very well said Tarik! It seems that there are belly dance fundamentalists who think that only their opinion is the right one and everybody has to see things THEIR way At the same time they claim to be open minded democrats. There is a proverb in German: "If you don't want to be my brother I'll brake your neck". I think it applies well here.

__________________
Oriental dancer and instructor of Greek origin, living in Germany
www.chryssanthi.com

Tarik Sultan

Hey sweetie:

How was your trip? You know you have to fill us all in. As you can see we've been busy since you were away. I've been reading Stavros's book . Interesting what he has to say about tsiftetelli. I need to do a youtube search to see what I find.

lizaj

Well thanks for that answer Tarik because I was so puzzled as as to how Jamil could have put anyone off him by that post!
I have to confess to being someone who thinks belly dance (oriental or beledi)comes more easily to women but by that very fact it means a male who does practise the art deserves so much kudos if he does it well.And we all deserve kudos for trying anyway!
As I lingered longer in the world of belly dance, I managed to unscramble my brain and look around..women play golf, rugby football therefore men belly dance..in different levels and degrees of style of course just like women. We will ,all men and women, look slightly different when we dance said dance. Our Bodies are different. That doesn't make us NOT a belly dancer. I have seen males do it far better than one or two students dancing around here who have been studying for not an inconsiderable time who think they are belly dancing but manage not to move their god given hips and bellies despite being women. They may as well pop off and do Riverdance.
I couldn't believe what I read about how a member of forum knew all about the private life a certain male dancer who I rever ( as if it were relevent anyway). A resident in Luxor I met over the last two weeks asked after him and wife as it happened .
And in said city I saw a small company of dancers that contains one very good female dancer and one excellent male dancer who was of course belly dancing for all his worth.
Oh and English folkloric dance is male orientated but we girls do it successfully !

Tarik Sultan

What blew my mind and finally opened my eyes after literally 10yrs if not more of communicating with said person, was when she made Serkan's show out to be a sexist endeavor. I mean, there have been mens shows in Europe for 10yrs now. If it were doing such harm how come she JUST found out about it now?

As for Khaled's sexual orientation.... who the hell cares. I do admit that I don't care for his choice in costuming, as I don't think they flatter his body at all. I think he looks much better in a gallabeya, it gives him a very princely air and looks very classy on him. However, to say that one dancer who openly admits that he presents a feminine image and approach, (who is also openly gay), looks like and Oriental dancer with feminine essence butKhaled looks like a GAY guy dancing.... That just don't make no damn sense. She often makes bizzar statements like this and then is surprised when people don't buy it. Next she'll be trying to tell us the sky is green and if we don't say yes then its because we just don't get it.

For all her talk about feminine essence you'd think she could give a better definition of it than "you know it when you see it". I think we all know femininity when we see it, we're not all daft after all. And when we see a man presenting an energy that approaches a womanly feeling and carriage in the body, we know what we're looking at too. Some men, gay or straight have an energy about them that is not virile in a manly sense, or what we now consider manly. Funny but in the 18th century the same qualities we now regard as sissified did not detract from a man's perception of being masculine. We've all seen the movies of the powdered wig days where the lips wristed guy can beat anyone in a sword fight. The point I'm trying to make is that the energy a man or woman brings to the stage is a result of their overall personalities and not because of the type of dance they do.

As for the guy you saw dancing in Luxor, was he a skinny dark skinned guy named Mahsoub? I find it interesting that more and more guys are beginning to dance in a way that is natural to Egyptian men instead of the stiff pseudo balletic style. When I was in Egypt last I saw a folk troupe who after doing all the standard folk numbers ended the show with a Saidi dance, then tied their turbans around their hips and got the ladies up to dance. That would have NEVER happened 20yrs ago! Tito, Saad, Limby, there is a change happening in Egypt from a grass roots level where they are no longer afraid to show their real selves.

jenc

Ah but vit's not you'll know it when you see it - it's you'll know it when I see it lol

Kharis

He is good, but has undisciplined arms... a classic sign of inexperience. Whether he's inexperienced in drum solos, or generally, I don't know, but his arms let him down. I hope he does not take umbrage too much to everyone's input, as this is how we all learn. And as has been pointed out, you put yourself in the public arena of You Tube, then you open yourself up to comments good and bad...that's part of being a professional. He's a good looking guy, good body, nice style generally, but needs to refine and hone his technique. A dancer will only be offended by constructive criticism if they are ego driven.

Tarik Sultan

He doesn't visit the forum often, but if you scroll back a few posts you'll see that he is aware of it and has been working on it and no he does not take offense to having it pointed out. He just wishes that some people who commented on it would have mentioned it to him directly as it would have been welcomed information.

Tarik Sultan

And for pointing out this fact we have been relegated to the list of "the 4 or 5 people on the forum who always have something nasty to say". What they fail to see is that all 4 or 5 of those people are folks who initially had a great deal of respect for her and valued her contributions. Its only when they started playing mind games and pontificating that the attitude gradually changed. They will always see themselves in the role of the victim who is attacked for telling the truth, because they fail to understand that its their arrogance, the way they constantly invalidate others opinions, experiences and the way the twist peoples statements, put words in their mouth, engage in evasive maneuvers and steering the conversation of course by bringing up irrelevant information and just down right attacking people for no good reason.

Maybe we should repent and then kill ourselves. Maybe then we can be reborn as her or at least inherit her all knowing friends. Takes all types to run the world.

Zorba

For sure, Tarik, for sure! Arms are *so* difficult, I myself still forget I have a pair of them sometimes!

__________________
-Zorba
"The Veiled Male"
http://www.doubleveil.net
"There is nothing sadder than a veil, that is for sale."