Greek male bellydancer Prince Kayammer - Page 12

Zorba · 07-22-2007, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarik Sultan

Do you understand what i mean now? I'm not saying that this is who we should be in the world in our real lives, but we have to understand that even as dancers, there is an element of acting involved. Who i am onstage and who I am off stage are two compleatly different people. But when I'm onstage I'm playing a role and therefore, just as theer are roles that were created for the women we men need to not onlyconnect to that place of sensuality to allow our natural "maleness to infuse the dance, but we need to create that dramatic element as well.

I understand (and essentially agree with) what you're saying - I just don't understand the idea of a "male version" - just go be yourself (and I know you do this).

But at the end of the day, this is probably getting into such a fine hair splitting on my part that it doesn't really matter. I originally read "male version" to equal "masculinization" which I don't think you do either!

Developing the on-stage persona is SO FREAKIN' HARD - esp. for (most) males. Letting down the barriers, letting ourselves be vulnerable, emoting, blah, blah. Its what I've been working on pretty much exclusively for the last several months. I've made *some* progress, but have a ways to go. My instructor has some interesting techniques to "summon emotion" that actually work - as she says it must be REAL. I'm all for REAL!

As for the differences in carriage between the genders - this is something I haven't give much thought to, my initial reaction is to say it mainly body structure, esp. in the pelvis area. I have noticed there is more of a hip sway to my walk since I started Belly Dancing - I always have assumed that it was because of the loosening of the pelvis that has occurred learning Maias and other side-to-side hip movements. It isn't an affectation on my part, but as I don't really care either I don't worry about it. It seems to occur mostly/more when walking downhill. Whatever!

Tarik Sultan · 07-22-2007, 04:57 PM

Z: I understand (and essentially agree with) what you're saying - I just don't understand the idea of a "male version" - just go be yourself (and I know you do this).

T: Like I said, its theater. Its the same thing that was done in the ballet. There are many dance forms that have slightly different styles for men and women. So being that its theater and what we see the women doing is based on the creation of certain personas or archetypes, the fem fatal, girl next door, queen, goddes, nymph etc, so too should men draw on some of our archtypes for the same sake of dramatic presentation. So what are some of our archetypes? Well I gave them before, but think of Rudolph Vatentino in son of the shiekh, that was one romantic archetype, dashing, heroic, yet sensitve and ready to sweep his heroine off of her feet. However, in order to pull off any of these roles, male or female, you have to be able to access that place we talked about before so it doesn't look contrived.

For example, in the clip I posted of myself at Ahlan Wa Sahlan, I was drawing on the archetype of the prince, regal dignified, gracefull, confident and assertive. Amir Thaleb draws on this energy also quite often:

At other points depending on the music, I might become the baladi boy, rougish, irreverent, mischivious, flirtatious, conceited, in love with himself, God's gift to the universe, or that particular ally in Cairo.
So you see, this is what I'm getting at. The role of men has not been adequetly explored. There is a wealth of possibilities of what can be brought to the stage, but we are all individually figuring this out, creating, exploring the options and we need to continue doing so.

There is a wonderful amount of variety now that didn't exist when I started. look at Myself, Tito, Asi, Amir, Jim. We are all very different and bring something different to the stage. This is why I can't accept the previously expressed view. I find it to be limiting. It is only one out of countless possibilities. And to say its the only one simply because it was the first born is like saying well the first baby in this family had blue eyes, therefore all the other kids who come along must also have blue eyes or they're not legitimate members of the family. This is what i mean when I say the qunique qualities of what men have need to be developed and brought to the stage.

Z: But at the end of the day, this is probably getting into such a fine hair splitting on my part that it doesn't really matter. I originally read "male version" to equal "masculinization" which I don't think you do either!

T: No Not at all

Snip

Z:
As for the differences in carriage between the genders - this is something I haven't give much thought to, my initial reaction is to say it mainly body structure, esp. in the pelvis area. I have noticed there is more of a hip sway to my walk since I started Belly Dancing - I always have assumed that it was because of the loosening of the pelvis that has occurred learning Maias and other side-to-side hip movements. It isn't an affectation on my part, but as I don't really care either I don't worry about it. It seems to occur mostly/more when walking downhill. Whatever!

T: My hips are very loose or relaxed when I walk, because I'm very flexable due to all the dancing. However, my gait is still very diffrent from that of a woman. Like I said, I think the difference is part biology, part gender roles, and probably part hormonal as well, but I could also be wrong, who knows really. All we know is that there is a difference the why is still a matter of speculation.

Maria_Aya · 07-23-2007, 07:17 AM

Goodmorning all from a steaming Athens Greece (40 C and its 10 morning, this means we will reach at least 45 at afternoon

)

Was a way the weekend and didnt had time to check the forum.
Actually was at North Greece with Prince Kayammer having auditions and checking dancers for a very big theatre show (compination of theatre-orientaldance and opera) where Anastasios gonna have the lead role.

His point of view and my point of view is that "we all agree to disagree" and this is a lovely thing because we all learn from this.

Kisses to all and have a great day

Zorba · 07-23-2007, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarik Sultan

My hips are very loose or relaxed when I walk, because I'm very flexable due to all the dancing. However, my gait is still very diffrent from that of a woman. Like I said, I think the difference is part biology, part gender roles, and probably part hormonal as well, but I could also be wrong, who knows really. All we know is that there is a difference the why is still a matter of speculation.

Yea, I dunno the "why" of it either. I've thrown out the "gender roles" in my life for the most part - I don't know, can't say, and don't care if my gait is the same as a woman or not. *shrug* I've always had an *odd* gait anyways, I tend to walk on the balls of my feet. I did that centuries before I was a dancer.

Maria: Holy Goddess Mother! 45 degrees sthn a8hna;! Yikes!!

07-22-2007, 04:57 PM	#112 (permalink)
Tarik Sultan V.I.P. Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Jersey City, New Jersey Posts: 1,337	Z: I understand (and essentially agree with) what you're saying - I just don't understand the idea of a "male version" - just go be yourself (and I know you do this). T: Like I said, its theater. Its the same thing that was done in the ballet. There are many dance forms that have slightly different styles for men and women. So being that its theater and what we see the women doing is based on the creation of certain personas or archetypes, the fem fatal, girl next door, queen, goddes, nymph etc, so too should men draw on some of our archtypes for the same sake of dramatic presentation. So what are some of our archetypes? Well I gave them before, but think of Rudolph Vatentino in son of the shiekh, that was one romantic archetype, dashing, heroic, yet sensitve and ready to sweep his heroine off of her feet. However, in order to pull off any of these roles, male or female, you have to be able to access that place we talked about before so it doesn't look contrived. For example, in the clip I posted of myself at Ahlan Wa Sahlan, I was drawing on the archetype of the prince, regal dignified, gracefull, confident and assertive. Amir Thaleb draws on this energy also quite often: At other points depending on the music, I might become the baladi boy, rougish, irreverent, mischivious, flirtatious, conceited, in love with himself, God's gift to the universe, or that particular ally in Cairo. So you see, this is what I'm getting at. The role of men has not been adequetly explored. There is a wealth of possibilities of what can be brought to the stage, but we are all individually figuring this out, creating, exploring the options and we need to continue doing so. There is a wonderful amount of variety now that didn't exist when I started. look at Myself, Tito, Asi, Amir, Jim. We are all very different and bring something different to the stage. This is why I can't accept the previously expressed view. I find it to be limiting. It is only one out of countless possibilities. And to say its the only one simply because it was the first born is like saying well the first baby in this family had blue eyes, therefore all the other kids who come along must also have blue eyes or they're not legitimate members of the family. This is what i mean when I say the qunique qualities of what men have need to be developed and brought to the stage. Z: But at the end of the day, this is probably getting into such a fine hair splitting on my part that it doesn't really matter. I originally read "male version" to equal "masculinization" which I don't think you do either! T: No Not at all Snip Z: As for the differences in carriage between the genders - this is something I haven't give much thought to, my initial reaction is to say it mainly body structure, esp. in the pelvis area. I have noticed there is more of a hip sway to my walk since I started Belly Dancing - I always have assumed that it was because of the loosening of the pelvis that has occurred learning Maias and other side-to-side hip movements. It isn't an affectation on my part, but as I don't really care either I don't worry about it. It seems to occur mostly/more when walking downhill. Whatever! T: My hips are very loose or relaxed when I walk, because I'm very flexable due to all the dancing. However, my gait is still very diffrent from that of a woman. Like I said, I think the difference is part biology, part gender roles, and probably part hormonal as well, but I could also be wrong, who knows really. All we know is that there is a difference the why is still a matter of speculation. Last edited by Tarik Sultan; 07-23-2007 at 01:23 PM.

07-23-2007, 07:17 AM	#113 (permalink)
Maria_Aya Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Athens, Greece Posts: 2,221	Goodmorning all from a steaming Athens Greece (40 C and its 10 morning, this means we will reach at least 45 at afternoon) Was a way the weekend and didnt had time to check the forum. Actually was at North Greece with Prince Kayammer having auditions and checking dancers for a very big theatre show (compination of theatre-orientaldance and opera) where Anastasios gonna have the lead role. His point of view and my point of view is that "we all agree to disagree" and this is a lovely thing because we all learn from this. Kisses to all and have a great day