Transvestite Student

Aisha Azar · 03-05-2007, 02:43 PM

Dear Group,
I am hoping that the men on this forum can offer me some advice. I have a transvestite student right now who comes to beginning class dressed as a woman and that is fine with me. She is about 35-40 years old. She states that she is a physical therapist, but she is sooo out of touch with her own body that she can not tell what her knees or her chest are doing. I can not find the magic words to get her to stop leaning over her body instead of standing up straight when she is learning a movement. Males do tend to carry their balance and their weight in their chests more than women, and I am wondering if any of the men on the forum had a similar problem and what the solution was for opening your eyes to it. I know that she THINKS she is doing waht the rest of the class is doing, but she is just not getting it. If anyone, male, female or other, has had a similar problem with a student or experienced it themnselves, what took place that was finally effective in solving the problem? For some reason, techniques that have worked with other people are not working with this student...??? I have taught and coached men before, but not dressed as females, so this is a new issue for me.
Regards,
A'isha

Zorba · 03-05-2007, 04:29 PM

I don't have a lot of advice to offer, you might bounce this off of "helen" on Bhuz - who transitioned a couple of years ago.

This said, I think its less an issue of transvestitism, and more an issue of being out of touch with "her" body. Perhaps a couple of privates? I'm assuming also that she's wearing a skirt - tell her to lose it until the posture problems are sorted out so you can see what's going on.

I do think males have posture problems - Goddess knows I do. My instructor hasn't been shy to do what I call the "Gumby routine" - she comes up to me and pushes, pulls, and adjusts my posture until I'm where she wants me to be. Its pretty amusing really, she's about 4'9", and I'm 6', so she has to stand on her tiptoes if she's adjusting my shoulders.

That helped me a LOT (she hasn't had to do it for quite some time now) - but of course there is always the issues of touching a student, esp. one of the opposite gender.

Men tend to be stiffer, etc, etc also.

ETA: A lot of guys (like me) also take way longer to figure things out and "break things loose". It may also be a simple matter of time. How long has s/he been taking?

-Zorba
"The Veiled Male"
Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

Aisha Azar · 03-05-2007, 06:16 PM

Dear Zorba,
Thaks for the input. Do you know how I can get in touch with Helen on Bhuz? I do belong, but can never seem to get on for some reason.
I guess that my student has dressed at least part time as woman for a long time. She usually wears tights and a top and hip belt, which is how much of the class dresses. She occasionally wears a skirt. I will try to keep in mind that she is still a male and that I have to relate to that as well as being sensitive to her as a cross dresser. I think I had sort of had forgotten about the fact that there is a male body under the clothing! Thanks for pointing out that it is an important part of the issue and that she may take longer than some of the other students to catch on and as you say "break things loose". She has been with me since November and I thought it was taking her a long time to get things, but now that you have showed me a different perspective, maybe it really isn't so long!
Regards,
A'isha

Kharmine · 03-06-2007, 04:50 AM

I remember taking a martial arts class years ago in which my sensei pointed out a few vital structural differences that made some moves different for the sexes.

The only details I remember are that women have a lower center of gravity, and their arms tend to have a natural curve as opposed to hanging straight from the shoulder like men's arms.

There was a whole slew of things like that; probably someone who has studied human anatomy could tell you more.

And maybe if this guy got some deep-tissue massage, he'd literally loosen up more. Humans tend to carry the tensions and defensive postures of old stresses and hurts in their bodies, long after memory fades. If he's grown up feeling his body is somehow alien, he's gonna move accordingly.

Aisha Azar · 03-06-2007, 02:06 PM

Dear Kharmine,
Thanks for bringing up the anatomical diffrerences. I have taught men and do see that difference in the center off gravity, and have pointed out in mixed gender classes that men may have to stand slightly differently to get certain movements, etc. I think I just really got lost in that I sort of "forgot" on some level that my student in reality does have a man's body. You and Zorba have helped to bring that into focus for me.
Regards,
A'isha

Recnadocir · 03-07-2007, 05:39 PM

Just curious, Aisha Azar- is this student from Transylvani-ah-ah-ah-ah, by any chance?

And Zorba- "a couple of privates?" You are really too droll

Aisha Azar · 03-07-2007, 06:48 PM

Dear Rico,
As an Innocent at my mother's knee ( or perhaps it was my father in drag), I had somehow hit upon the idea that Transvestites were a cult whose main ritual consisted of moving sleeveless, open fronted garments about the planet for some spritual purpose.
As I grew older, and yes, wiser, I came to realize that if one befriended a transvestite of the male persuasion, then one would be in a position to borrow some truly fabulous gowns and evening bags that one could not afford to trick onself out in ( though shoes were often too large and so must be bought from one's own meagre pension). One could also get one's hair done for free with just a few snide comments about split ends and thinning tresses, and one could get one's make up done for merely putting up with a few under the breath satements like, "If I ever get crow's feet like that, you'll have to fish me out of the fountain because I will positively drown myself". And once one was entirely clothed and coiffed and air kissed for the evening ahead, one would hear the parting comment, "Now don't forget, Darling , DO NOT sit down in that sheath because I DO NOT want it to get all stretched out because of your matronly ass". (This, though in one's backside was in truth five inches in diameter smaller than that bitch's!!)
Nah, she's not from Transylvania, but she IS from Germany and has a lovely accent.
Regards,
A'isha

Kharmine · 03-07-2007, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A'isha Azar

Dear Rico,
As an Innocent at my mother's knee ( or perhaps it was my father in drag), I had somehow hit upon the idea that Transvestites were a cult whose main ritual consisted of moving sleeveless, open fronted garments about the planet for some spritual purpose. ..

Oh, that made my day! Many thanks, A'isha!

When I was active in Renaissance fairs, I had a few male friends who loved to get into drag at the drop of a corset lace and were always egging on their less adept gay pals into dresses. This made for some disconcerting moments as when the very red-haired and bristly actor portraying the King of Scotland turned up suddenly beardless and beruffled at a party.

I still remember feeling struck by lightning as he preened before me and asked the dreaded question, "What do you think?" I managed to sidestep that one by pretending to pinch his cheek and saying, "Mike, I'd know that smile any where!"

The successful transvestite soon learns, like any successfully chic person, what will work for them and what won't. Just putting on a dress and false eyelashes ain't gonna cut it. There are some guys of undeniably masculine design who should never attempt to look like Marilyn Monroe (it'll just be a bad Anna Nicole). They'd be better off going for say, a Marlene Dietrich look.

So, perhaps an awkward male transvestite belly dancer should not be attempting to dance like, oh, say, Dina, and should go for something more like Tahia Karioka, who to my mind had a more regal and subtle style.

Aisha Azar · 03-07-2007, 08:42 PM

Dear Kharmine,
I was the closest of friends with a beautiful straight guy who loved to cross dress. He eventually moved to San Francisco to become a museum curator. I think of him often, though we have lost touch. I loved him. I also had a gay friend who was a Queen. She died of AIDS about 15 years ago. She used to joke that if I got to her house before her sister, I could have all her stuff!! Ever the sarcastic bitch to the end! She became addicted to heroin and really just stopped caring about everything and everyone else. I am not sure I would not do the same thing under her circumstances.
I am hoping that my student eventually realizes that she will not probably be a delicate flower of a dancer, ever, though she greatly admires one of my students who is.
Regards,
A'isha

Kharmine · 03-07-2007, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A'isha Azar

...I am hoping that my student eventually realizes that she will not probably be a delicate flower of a dancer, ever, though she greatly admires one of my students who is...

I'm sure with all your experience, talent and kindness, A'isha, that you will give this poor guy more comfort in his own skin than he's probably had for a long time. I don't think he could have a more considerate instructor!

And maybe once he's seen more diversity in belly dancers he'll feel that somewhere is a style that will feel right.

03-05-2007, 02:43 PM	#1 (permalink)
Aisha Azar V.I.P. Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Pacific Northwest USA Posts: 4,462	Transvestite Student Dear Group, I am hoping that the men on this forum can offer me some advice. I have a transvestite student right now who comes to beginning class dressed as a woman and that is fine with me. She is about 35-40 years old. She states that she is a physical therapist, but she is sooo out of touch with her own body that she can not tell what her knees or her chest are doing. I can not find the magic words to get her to stop leaning over her body instead of standing up straight when she is learning a movement. Males do tend to carry their balance and their weight in their chests more than women, and I am wondering if any of the men on the forum had a similar problem and what the solution was for opening your eyes to it. I know that she THINKS she is doing waht the rest of the class is doing, but she is just not getting it. If anyone, male, female or other, has had a similar problem with a student or experienced it themnselves, what took place that was finally effective in solving the problem? For some reason, techniques that have worked with other people are not working with this student...??? I have taught and coached men before, but not dressed as females, so this is a new issue for me. Regards, A'isha

03-05-2007, 04:29 PM	#2 (permalink)
Zorba Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 857	I don't have a lot of advice to offer, you might bounce this off of "helen" on Bhuz - who transitioned a couple of years ago. This said, I think its less an issue of transvestitism, and more an issue of being out of touch with "her" body. Perhaps a couple of privates? I'm assuming also that she's wearing a skirt - tell her to lose it until the posture problems are sorted out so you can see what's going on. I do think males have posture problems - Goddess knows I do. My instructor hasn't been shy to do what I call the "Gumby routine" - she comes up to me and pushes, pulls, and adjusts my posture until I'm where she wants me to be. Its pretty amusing really, she's about 4'9", and I'm 6', so she has to stand on her tiptoes if she's adjusting my shoulders. That helped me a LOT (she hasn't had to do it for quite some time now) - but of course there is always the issues of touching a student, esp. one of the opposite gender. Men tend to be stiffer, etc, etc also. ETA: A lot of guys (like me) also take way longer to figure things out and "break things loose". It may also be a simple matter of time. How long has s/he been taking? -Zorba "The Veiled Male" Zorba, "The Veiled Male" Last edited by Zorba; 03-05-2007 at 04:35 PM.

03-05-2007, 06:16 PM	#3 (permalink)
Aisha Azar V.I.P. Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Pacific Northwest USA Posts: 4,462	Transvestite, etc. Dear Zorba, Thaks for the input. Do you know how I can get in touch with Helen on Bhuz? I do belong, but can never seem to get on for some reason. I guess that my student has dressed at least part time as woman for a long time. She usually wears tights and a top and hip belt, which is how much of the class dresses. She occasionally wears a skirt. I will try to keep in mind that she is still a male and that I have to relate to that as well as being sensitive to her as a cross dresser. I think I had sort of had forgotten about the fact that there is a male body under the clothing! Thanks for pointing out that it is an important part of the issue and that she may take longer than some of the other students to catch on and as you say "break things loose". She has been with me since November and I thought it was taking her a long time to get things, but now that you have showed me a different perspective, maybe it really isn't so long! Regards, A'isha

03-06-2007, 04:50 AM	#4 (permalink)
Kharmine V.I.P. Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Foot of the Rocky Mountains Posts: 1,248	I remember taking a martial arts class years ago in which my sensei pointed out a few vital structural differences that made some moves different for the sexes. The only details I remember are that women have a lower center of gravity, and their arms tend to have a natural curve as opposed to hanging straight from the shoulder like men's arms. There was a whole slew of things like that; probably someone who has studied human anatomy could tell you more. And maybe if this guy got some deep-tissue massage, he'd literally loosen up more. Humans tend to carry the tensions and defensive postures of old stresses and hurts in their bodies, long after memory fades. If he's grown up feeling his body is somehow alien, he's gonna move accordingly. __________________ What if the hokey pokey is really what it's all about?

03-06-2007, 02:06 PM	#5 (permalink)
Aisha Azar V.I.P. Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Pacific Northwest USA Posts: 4,462	Tranvestite Dear Kharmine, Thanks for bringing up the anatomical diffrerences. I have taught men and do see that difference in the center off gravity, and have pointed out in mixed gender classes that men may have to stand slightly differently to get certain movements, etc. I think I just really got lost in that I sort of "forgot" on some level that my student in reality does have a man's body. You and Zorba have helped to bring that into focus for me. Regards, A'isha

03-07-2007, 05:39 PM	#6 (permalink)
Recnadocir Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: La La Land Posts: 466	Just curious, Aisha Azar- is this student from Transylvani-ah-ah-ah-ah, by any chance? And Zorba- "a couple of privates?" You are really too droll

03-07-2007, 06:48 PM	#7 (permalink)
Aisha Azar V.I.P. Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Pacific Northwest USA Posts: 4,462	Transvestite Dear Rico, As an Innocent at my mother's knee ( or perhaps it was my father in drag), I had somehow hit upon the idea that Transvestites were a cult whose main ritual consisted of moving sleeveless, open fronted garments about the planet for some spritual purpose. As I grew older, and yes, wiser, I came to realize that if one befriended a transvestite of the male persuasion, then one would be in a position to borrow some truly fabulous gowns and evening bags that one could not afford to trick onself out in ( though shoes were often too large and so must be bought from one's own meagre pension). One could also get one's hair done for free with just a few snide comments about split ends and thinning tresses, and one could get one's make up done for merely putting up with a few under the breath satements like, "If I ever get crow's feet like that, you'll have to fish me out of the fountain because I will positively drown myself". And once one was entirely clothed and coiffed and air kissed for the evening ahead, one would hear the parting comment, "Now don't forget, Darling , DO NOT sit down in that sheath because I DO NOT want it to get all stretched out because of your matronly ass". (This, though in one's backside was in truth five inches in diameter smaller than that bitch's!!) Nah, she's not from Transylvania, but she IS from Germany and has a lovely accent. Regards, A'isha

03-07-2007, 08:42 PM	#9 (permalink)
Aisha Azar V.I.P. Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Pacific Northwest USA Posts: 4,462	Transvestite Dear Kharmine, I was the closest of friends with a beautiful straight guy who loved to cross dress. He eventually moved to San Francisco to become a museum curator. I think of him often, though we have lost touch. I loved him. I also had a gay friend who was a Queen. She died of AIDS about 15 years ago. She used to joke that if I got to her house before her sister, I could have all her stuff!! Ever the sarcastic bitch to the end! She became addicted to heroin and really just stopped caring about everything and everyone else. I am not sure I would not do the same thing under her circumstances. I am hoping that my student eventually realizes that she will not probably be a delicate flower of a dancer, ever, though she greatly admires one of my students who is. Regards, A'isha