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Old 03-07-2007, 10:57 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A'isha Azar View Post
Dear Kharmine,
I am hoping that my student eventually realizes that she will not probably be a delicate flower of a dancer, ever, though she greatly admires one of my students who is.
Regards,
A'isha
she may never be a delicate flower dancer, but hopefully she can learn to feel like one.
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Old 03-07-2007, 11:20 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Default Transvestite

Dear Kharmine,
Thankyou and I only WISH I was as good as I sound in your post.

Dear Charity,
The delicate flower part of her soul shows often.

Regards,
A'isha
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Old 03-08-2007, 02:01 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A'isha Azar View Post
Dear Kharmine,
Thankyou and I only WISH I was as good as I sound in your post.

Dear Charity,
The delicate flower part of her soul shows often.

Regards,
A'isha
Ah yes! We did have a tranny in one of our classes and she was fabulous fun and realistic after the first few sessions when she got comfy with all of us.

The posture thing was yes, an ongoing battle also apparently a stiff back or hamstring thing going on which I think a lot of guys have. There will always be the hands and feet but hopefully your student is open about being transgendering and nail polish fun can ensue.

Actually I've heard that a lot of trans to female find dancing especially belly dancing a great way to get their body going better. This person actually did get much much better and will continue to I'm quite sure.

Good luck and bless ya for being a good teacher to someone with issues, g
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Old 03-17-2007, 05:02 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Default A slighly different perspective

Hi:

I'm new to these forums. When I first looked at this forum, this thread was highlighted as one of the most recent.

My persective on this is a little different -- I am a M to F transsexual who is also a dancer.

A couple of questions:

Is your student a transvestite -- a male who enjoys dressing as a woman for whatever reason? Or is she a transsexual -- a woman who ended up in the wrong body type, most probably due to a interuterine accident?

You didn't mention how old she was. That might have an impact on how she moves, her flexibility, and her ingrained habits.

My experience is as a TS. I haven't met very many TV so what I do know about them is second-hand.

If she is TS, she has probably been scared most of her life that people would find out. She probably learned very early that she didn't have the right instincts to pass as a "normal" boy. She probably wanted to move "wrong", was interested in the "wrong" things, thought "wrong", and wanted to look "wrong". Depending on when and where she grew up any of these could have gotten her beat up, ostracised, humiliated, abandoned, or worse.

As a result, she proabably has tried to carry herself very tightly from tension, fear, and an attempt to pass. As pointed out earlier, males tend t be stiffer due to the way they are taught by society to carry themselves and from more and tighter muscle mass. Being TS can exacerbate this.

What stage is she in her transition? Is she on HRT? Both of these can ease her tenseness and somewhat masculine sense of movement.

I'm guessing that she is trying very hard but just doesn't have a good sense of where her body is or what it is doing from your description.

Have you ever had this problem with another woman? How did you handle it? Try what worked there. Zorba commented that his instructor would have to push and pull to get him to stand correctly. You may have to do that.

I was certainly a trial to my instructors. Luckily I had some very good ones. But it did take a longish time for me to feel comfortable with letting my body flow after holding it so rigidly for so long.

Thank you VERY much for the correct use of pronouns. I know she appreciates it. She is probably very sensitive about how people perceive her and reminders about the deformed body that she was borne with. A neutral comment that she needs to hold her shoulders back more would be better than a one that stated that males need to hold their shoulders back more.

Thank you very much for your sensitivity and openness.

Phoenix
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Old 03-17-2007, 05:46 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Default Transvestite

Dear Phoenix,
Thank you for making this contribution. More in context bleow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
Hi:

I'm new to these forums. When I first looked at this forum, this thread was highlighted as one of the most recent.

My persective on this is a little different -- I am a M to F transsexual who is also a dancer.

A couple of questions:

Is your student a transvestite -- a male who enjoys dressing as a woman for whatever reason? Or is she a transsexual -- a woman who ended up in the wrong body type, most probably due to a interuterine accident?

A'isha writes- This is what I know. My student is marrried to a woman and I have been told by another freind who knows her, also dresses like a man sometimes. But, I used to know another marrried person who was a transvestite who was preparing to have transexual surgery from male to female. She moved from here and I have not heard from her for years, but I think she said she would dress like a female for a period of time, then begin hormone treatements and there may have been some other steps that I am forgetting, before the surgeries. Now, this IS just a feeling, but I get the feeling that my student also might be a person who is either very in touch with her feminine side or might be the product of intrauterine accident, as you say.

You didn't mention how old she was. That might have an impact on how she moves, her flexibility, and her ingrained habits.

A'isha writes- She appears to be about 35-40.

My experience is as a TS. I haven't met very many TV so what I do know about them is second-hand.

If she is TS, she has probably been scared most of her life that people would find out. She probably learned very early that she didn't have the right instincts to pass as a "normal" boy. She probably wanted to move "wrong", was interested in the "wrong" things, thought "wrong", and wanted to look "wrong". Depending on when and where she grew up any of these could have gotten her beat up, ostracised, humiliated, abandoned, or worse.

A'isha wries- Because of other freinds that I have who are gay,Lesbian, or into cross-dressing, I know that what you say above is true.

As a result, she proabably has tried to carry herself very tightly from tension, fear, and an attempt to pass. As pointed out earlier, males tend t be stiffer due to the way they are taught by society to carry themselves and from more and tighter muscle mass. Being TS can exacerbate this.

What stage is she in her transition? Is she on HRT? Both of these can ease her tenseness and somewhat masculine sense of movement.

A'isha writes- I do not know a lot about her history. I only know what others have told me. She was referred to me by a woman who did my permanent eye make-up for me and with whom I have a freindly relationship. She said she had a good friend who is a transvestite and wants to take classes, but was nervous about approaching a teacher without first checking on how that teacher would feel about her being a transvestite. She also belongs to a cultural society here in town where one of my dance company members belongs, and she has seen her dressed as a man and as a woman at society functions.

I'm guessing that she is trying very hard but just doesn't have a good sense of where her body is or what it is doing from your description.

A'isha writes- That's what I think, too, and for reasons that you discussed above.

Have you ever had this problem with another woman? How did you handle it? Try what worked there. Zorba commented that his instructor would have to push and pull to get him to stand correctly. You may have to do that.
was certainly a trial to my instructors. Luckily I had some very good ones. But it did take a longish time for me to feel comfortable with letting my body flow after holding it so rigidly for so long.

A'isha writes- A have had one other student who had similar problems. there is also sort of a time factor where info takes longer to reach from the brain to the body part, if that makes sense, for both of them. But, I do want to say that my beginners are now learning a choreography and they BOTH seem to do better!! Maybe it is the structure or something...???

Thank you VERY much for the correct use of pronouns. I know she appreciates it. She is probably very sensitive about how people perceive her and reminders about the deformed body that she was borne with. A neutral comment that she needs to hold her shoulders back more would be better than a one that stated that males need to hold their shoulders back more.

A'isha writes- I have never referred to her as a male either to her or to others. She is a female as far as I am concerned, unless she otherwise suggests.

Thank you very much for your sensitivity and openness.

A'isha writes- I would not think of treating her differently than any of my students.
PS- I love the name you use on the forum... very fitting. Best wishes to you and I am so happy that you were willing to share your own story.

Regards,
A'isha

Phoenix
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Old 03-20-2007, 09:01 PM   #16 (permalink)
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The suggesting of her getting a massage is a good one. I've worked with martial artists and they've improved their range of motion when they've had a massage. It is also very relaxing, which we all know helps.

Another suggestion is maybe giving her some stretching exercises. These are new movements for her and her body isn't used to making them. Some people are more naturally inflexible than others. Perhaps stretching will help her with the movements.

There was a cross-dresser I know from costuming who did some very good female costumes (me:"No, that's a guy." person:"No way!"). He was also an AWESOME belly dancer - male costumed.
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Old 03-27-2007, 10:38 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Hi I've been lurking on this board for a while but this thread has prompted me to reply.

I very much agree with Zorba & Phoenix who mentioned their instructors using a 'hands on' approach with them. With all my students (including a non TV or TS male) I always ask "do you mind putting your hands on my hips?" and when they assent I do the move and let them feel the play of my muscles then get them do the move with me. Also if they really aren't getting it, I ask "is it ok if I touch you?" and when they assent I move them into the correct position, telling them to relax as much as possible, then when they have loosened up I move their body to give them an idea of what they should be doing.

This was a technique my very first teacher used, and I know not everyone is comfortable with it, but not one of my students has said no, and I think it is so important especially at the beginning when a student has not brain to muscle connection in the areas we now can move so easily.

Also I think that for a TV/TS person (whichever sex) who may be a bit insecure, the act of touch (with consent) by way of instruction can be very accepting and put them more at ease.
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Old 03-27-2007, 12:43 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Default Transvestite, etc.

Dear Wigglit 76,
Thank you for your input. It is appreciated because it always helps to see what students know about their learning process!
The problem with the hands-on approach with people who have little personal body awareness is that the problem extends to having awareness of what other people's bodies are doing also. I am in the habit of using physical touch as a method of teaching, but it simply does not work on some students. This is some 2- 2 1/2 weeks after my original message. My student is very slowly making some improvements, I think due to the fact that we are now working on a short beginner's choreography. Perhaps she needs that linear thought process to help her move. I think that calling her attention to everything that she does correctly has been the most successful teaching tool so far; even more than personal correction or physical touch or any other teaching tool. She responds to positive reinforcement better than any other thing, nearly as I can tell. Every student learns differently and I THINK I am making some discoveries about her personal learning process now that will help both of us.
Regards,
A'isha

Wiggelit wrote:
I very much agree with Zorba & Phoenix who mentioned their instructors using a 'hands on' approach with them. With all my students (including a non TV or TS male) I always ask "do you mind putting your hands on my hips?" and when they assent I do the move and let them feel the play of my muscles then get them do the move with me. Also if they really aren't getting it, I ask "is it ok if I touch you?" and when they assent I move them into the correct position, telling them to relax as much as possible, then when they have loosened up I move their body to give them an idea of what they should be doing.

This was a technique my very first teacher used, and I know not everyone is comfortable with it, but not one of my students has said no, and I think it is so important especially at the beginning when a student has not brain to muscle connection in the areas we now can move so easily.

Also I think that for a TV/TS person (whichever sex) who may be a bit insecure, the act of touch (with consent) by way of instruction can be very accepting and put them more at ease.[/quote]
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Old 03-28-2007, 02:07 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Hi there all !

A total honest post, about differents of culture in different countries.
Old members of the forum know me for years, and I'm known for my open mind (even more open than it should lol) but here in this post we have many new members

I'm living at Greece, teaching at Athens.
The situation here with people that have different sexual orientation (sorry but I dont know the terms or how to be political correct here, but with all means sweet heart speaking) is tought !!!
Even gay students find it very difficult to step into a dance school, not even speaking for TS or TV.
If by any chance someone in this situation come to my class, I wouldnt know how to handle it. All the hell from gossiping from the other students, from the other classes, looking and staring, ohh my !!
God I have friends for 10 years that I know they are gay and we are buddies and they never say to ANYONE !!! its a hidden world over here.
I see them getting married and I'm in shock !!! why??? why??? this covering up? and after they wonder why I disapear from the friendship !!!
There is an unspoken racist around here, about many things, sexual preferences, body types, skin colour, race, emigrades etc. and its sooo sad when you realize it.
I lived as part of the racism as a kid, a very dark kid that all thought was arab or gypsy and was teased for ages for it (hey maybe thats why i'm hooked with arab dance )
and unfortunately it continues

I'm 100% with the body touch method for relaxing students, even if at the begining they find it wierd, it creates a contact between teacher and student.
So my dear precious Aisha, go for it

Maria Aya

Oh I got total out of the subject but felt that I had to say it.

Last edited by Maria_Aya; 03-28-2007 at 02:10 PM.
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Old 03-28-2007, 02:18 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Dear Aya,
I believe you totally about the prejudice against people of non-hetero sexual orientation. Most Arabs are VERY down ( at least publicly) on gay men and lesbian women and anyone who exhibits any kind of transexual behaviors. Now, privately, as we know, is often another matter. And THIS is very strange to me. Often it is okay to be a macho male in a gay encounter, but not to be a subservient male. The person who is the less masculine ( as defined in Arab terms) is referred to as "Funny Boy" in some Arab cultures. I am appalled by this in any culture, and feel as you do about it.
Re my student- She does not mind me touching her, or her touching me, but it just does not seem to be an effective method of teaching. We are physically comfortable with each other. She is not physically comfortable with herself, which is a different problem.
Regards,
A'isha
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