Zorba's early days...

Yasmine Bint Al Nubia · 01-12-2007, 04:24 PM

Hi Zorba, Can you tell us what your experiences were when you first started taking classes?
Yasmine

Zorba · 01-12-2007, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yasmine Bint Al Nubia

Hi Zorba, Can you tell us what your experiences were when you first started taking classes?
Yasmine

Be glad to - but give me some guidance so I don't run my mouth off (I'm good at that) yakking about the "wrong" aspect or something. In other words, what specifically are you looking for?

I showed up at the dance studio (a bit nervous), and took the class. I had pre-researched and contacted the instructor ahead of time, wanting to find someone who "knew what to do with me" - which was, of course, a mistake as ANY belly dance instructor knows what to do with a male student - she just may not know it yet!

But this particular one had told me "I've had many male students and male teachers, come on down!". I've been with her on and off (mostly on) for over 6 years now, which makes me her longest running male student of her 36 year teaching career (the runner up lasted 4-1/2 years before quitting).

-Zorba
"The Veiled Male"
Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

Yasmine Bint Al Nubia · 01-13-2007, 12:30 AM

Hi Zorba, I was thinking along the lines of your perceptions of dance and were your expectations met. How well did you bond with the other students.It's ok for free association, just run with it brother

Yasmine

Zorba · 01-16-2007, 09:18 PM

Ok - moved this to a new thread as it made sense to do so...

At the time I walked into my first class, I had been dancing Greek Folk Dances for five years (no prior dance experience to that), and performing same for three.

Males in general are terrified of anything they perceive as "feminine". I was more than a bit nervous about entering a class full of females. It didn't help when walking into the studio I had a GUY (of all things) at the desk asking me what I wanted...

Anyways, the instructor showed up, greeted me warmly (which helped a LOT), and started the class. Some time early on she said something about this dance enhances women's femininity, and enhances men's masculinity - a viewpoint that I adhere to to this day. She may, or may not have mentioned her experiences with other male dancers (Bert Baladine, Horacio, others) - its kind of a blur. I remember asking her a question at one point about the Greek dance rule of "The nose goes where the toes goes" - did that apply to THIS dance form? (no).

We learned step-hips and "basic Egyptian", among other things that I don't remember. At the end of the class the instructor had us pair off and dance across the circle we formed using our choice of dance steps. The equally terrified gal and I chose basic Egyptian and did it - OK I guess...

That's my memory of my first class - not terribly eloquent, I know.

For the next several weeks I formed a rapport with my new dance sisters, although I don't remember them well now as I had to leave (more below). The instructor wanted me to perform with the group after about three or four classes - the simple choreography that she was teaching. No way - not yet! I wasn't ready, I had enough dance experience with my Greek dancing to know I was simply blundering - something I would continue to do for the next 18 months or so...

My instructor had lost her dance space (after that very first class), we were meeting clandestinely in a local college auditorium (they didn't know we were there), until she found a new space for class. The new space forced a change of class night, and I had an un-resolvable conflict.

So she told me about another instructor in town who had a class that would work. I called her (instructor 2). She, unlike instructor 1, had never had a male in her class before. She asked me LOTS of "careful" question on the phone. She told me about an upcoming performance - so I showed up at the performance. Afterwards, I approached one of the dancers - please take me to your leader... (!) So I had a short chat with the new instructor, and showed up for her class...

She came in, she taught class, and she left. Very business like. Not like instructor 1's class, nor like Greek dance class where we talked and joked around and had fun. I thought at the time: Ok, I can deal with this (I was *SO* over my fears by then).

This went on for the 4 weeks I had paid for. On week 5, I handed her a check for another 4 weeks. She took it and muttered "another four weeks..." I then got the clue that she was a bit nervous about me!

She had mentioned an upcoming solo performance at a local Indian restaurant. So my wife and I went to see her, she met my wife, blah, blah.

That's what broke the ice. She started to relax around me and her class started to become more "normal" (Goddess knows what her other students thought). I found out years later that she had talked to her troupe mates in the professional level troupe she heads up about what to do with me! Poor thing was terrified, and just wasn't sure if I was for real or not. Bless her for taking me on!

Time went on. I found out that my presence often confused or flabbergasted my dance sisters - "What's he doing here?". There was one student in particular who, I guess, was intrigued by me - she asked right out loud in class "What role does a male dancer play?". She was there with me to do my first, scared performance with the gals at the 1 year point. She was also front row center at my first solo performance (which wasn't really scary to me at that point) at 18 months. She told me afterwards that she just couldn't picture a male doing veilwork (My first solo had it towards the end, so I got to do veil wrap and everything) - she considered a veil to be the very "heart of femininity". BUT - she thought I looked "masculine" doing it, blah, blah. She was kinda my #1 fan, I guess. Her support was priceless.

I was able to rejoin instructor #1 eventually, and took from both #1 and #2 for a long while. I've since dropped #2 last year to take classes with HER instructor. But I'm now treated by all as "one of the girls", and I cherish that. I make a point of mentioning my wife early and often around newly met dance sisters - I need them to know I'm "safe". Of course the initial thought many have is that I'm gay - so sometimes the reactions to my being married are priceless!

Instructor #2 teases me, "If there's something 'feminine' going on, Zorba's right in the middle of it". Ok, so I was sharing some chocolate and we were all on the floor with some Tarot cards - if that's "feminine", I don't care! It was fun, and I drew one heck of an interesting card...

-Zorba
"The Veiled Male"
Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

Yasmine Bint Al Nubia · 01-16-2007, 10:19 PM

Hi Zorba Thanks for your reply! What an adventure and I'm glad you stuck around the dance scene

So far, when we have new students we discuss ideas and images women identify with i.e. motherhood, family/time mgmt etc. Just hazarding a guess, other students will follow the teacher's lead in the acceptance of a male student, so I hope to do all my dance brothers proud!
Yasmine

Zorba · 01-16-2007, 10:31 PM

I'm sure you'll do well!

Being treated as "one of the gals" is a fascinating place to be. I'll joke sometimes "The things I hear in Belly Dance class!". I have a rule about it - "What happens in the harem, stays in the harem".

My instructors all continue to use feminine images. Ok, so some of them may not be part of my experience, but I have a brain and can figure it out. "That little muscle below the bra strap" - I don't wear one, but as a married man I certainly know where/how they fit and can figure it out from there!

-Zorba
"The Veiled Male"
Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

Zorba · 01-19-2007, 02:21 AM

I'll add an anecdote about a recent workshop I was in with a VERY famous, well known teacher.

She was using terminology like "Ovaries to the wall" and T*ts over toes", and similar to the class of about 75 women - and me.

We had an hour break at the halfway point of the 4 hour workshop - she actually sought me out and apologized for her female-centric language, she didn't want me to feel left out, etc, etc.

I found this VERY touching - but told her not to worry an instant about it. "In this context, I'm an honorary woman. I'm used to it!"

"Ovaries to the wall!" I kinda like it...

-Zorba
"The Veiled Male"
Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

nigma · 01-21-2007, 11:03 AM

Kewl Zorba. you are one of a kind.

Suhad · 01-21-2007, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorba

"What happens in the harem, stays in the harem"

That is priceless!! I love it!!!

Maria_Aya · 02-01-2007, 08:28 AM

Dear Zorba !!!!
What a great story of early years !!!

Thanks for sharing and thanks Yasmine to asking

Maria Aya

01-12-2007, 04:24 PM	#1 (permalink)
Yasmine Bint Al Nubia V.I.P. Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Akron, Ohio Posts: 1,132	Hi Zorba, Can you tell us what your experiences were when you first started taking classes? Yasmine __________________ www.visionsofthenile.com

01-13-2007, 12:30 AM	#3 (permalink)
Yasmine Bint Al Nubia V.I.P. Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Akron, Ohio Posts: 1,132	Hi Zorba, I was thinking along the lines of your perceptions of dance and were your expectations met. How well did you bond with the other students.It's ok for free association, just run with it brother Yasmine __________________ www.visionsofthenile.com

01-16-2007, 09:18 PM	#4 (permalink)
Zorba Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 857	Ok - moved this to a new thread as it made sense to do so... At the time I walked into my first class, I had been dancing Greek Folk Dances for five years (no prior dance experience to that), and performing same for three. Males in general are terrified of anything they perceive as "feminine". I was more than a bit nervous about entering a class full of females. It didn't help when walking into the studio I had a GUY (of all things) at the desk asking me what I wanted... Anyways, the instructor showed up, greeted me warmly (which helped a LOT), and started the class. Some time early on she said something about this dance enhances women's femininity, and enhances men's masculinity - a viewpoint that I adhere to to this day. She may, or may not have mentioned her experiences with other male dancers (Bert Baladine, Horacio, others) - its kind of a blur. I remember asking her a question at one point about the Greek dance rule of "The nose goes where the toes goes" - did that apply to THIS dance form? (no). We learned step-hips and "basic Egyptian", among other things that I don't remember. At the end of the class the instructor had us pair off and dance across the circle we formed using our choice of dance steps. The equally terrified gal and I chose basic Egyptian and did it - OK I guess... That's my memory of my first class - not terribly eloquent, I know. For the next several weeks I formed a rapport with my new dance sisters, although I don't remember them well now as I had to leave (more below). The instructor wanted me to perform with the group after about three or four classes - the simple choreography that she was teaching. No way - not yet! I wasn't ready, I had enough dance experience with my Greek dancing to know I was simply blundering - something I would continue to do for the next 18 months or so... My instructor had lost her dance space (after that very first class), we were meeting clandestinely in a local college auditorium (they didn't know we were there), until she found a new space for class. The new space forced a change of class night, and I had an un-resolvable conflict. So she told me about another instructor in town who had a class that would work. I called her (instructor 2). She, unlike instructor 1, had never had a male in her class before. She asked me LOTS of "careful" question on the phone. She told me about an upcoming performance - so I showed up at the performance. Afterwards, I approached one of the dancers - please take me to your leader... (!) So I had a short chat with the new instructor, and showed up for her class... She came in, she taught class, and she left. Very business like. Not like instructor 1's class, nor like Greek dance class where we talked and joked around and had fun. I thought at the time: Ok, I can deal with this (I was SO over my fears by then). This went on for the 4 weeks I had paid for. On week 5, I handed her a check for another 4 weeks. She took it and muttered "another four weeks..." I then got the clue that she was a bit nervous about me! She had mentioned an upcoming solo performance at a local Indian restaurant. So my wife and I went to see her, she met my wife, blah, blah. That's what broke the ice. She started to relax around me and her class started to become more "normal" (Goddess knows what her other students thought). I found out years later that she had talked to her troupe mates in the professional level troupe she heads up about what to do with me! Poor thing was terrified, and just wasn't sure if I was for real or not. Bless her for taking me on! Time went on. I found out that my presence often confused or flabbergasted my dance sisters - "What's he doing here?". There was one student in particular who, I guess, was intrigued by me - she asked right out loud in class "What role does a male dancer play?". She was there with me to do my first, scared performance with the gals at the 1 year point. She was also front row center at my first solo performance (which wasn't really scary to me at that point) at 18 months. She told me afterwards that she just couldn't picture a male doing veilwork (My first solo had it towards the end, so I got to do veil wrap and everything) - she considered a veil to be the very "heart of femininity". BUT - she thought I looked "masculine" doing it, blah, blah. She was kinda my #1 fan, I guess. Her support was priceless. I was able to rejoin instructor #1 eventually, and took from both #1 and #2 for a long while. I've since dropped #2 last year to take classes with HER instructor. But I'm now treated by all as "one of the girls", and I cherish that. I make a point of mentioning my wife early and often around newly met dance sisters - I need them to know I'm "safe". Of course the initial thought many have is that I'm gay - so sometimes the reactions to my being married are priceless! Instructor #2 teases me, "If there's something 'feminine' going on, Zorba's right in the middle of it". Ok, so I was sharing some chocolate and we were all on the floor with some Tarot cards - if that's "feminine", I don't care! It was fun, and I drew one heck of an interesting card... -Zorba "The Veiled Male" Zorba, "The Veiled Male" Last edited by Zorba; 01-16-2007 at 09:45 PM.

01-16-2007, 10:19 PM	#5 (permalink)
Yasmine Bint Al Nubia V.I.P. Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Akron, Ohio Posts: 1,132	Hi Zorba Thanks for your reply! What an adventure and I'm glad you stuck around the dance scene So far, when we have new students we discuss ideas and images women identify with i.e. motherhood, family/time mgmt etc. Just hazarding a guess, other students will follow the teacher's lead in the acceptance of a male student, so I hope to do all my dance brothers proud! Yasmine __________________ www.visionsofthenile.com

01-16-2007, 10:31 PM	#6 (permalink)
Zorba Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 857	I'm sure you'll do well! Being treated as "one of the gals" is a fascinating place to be. I'll joke sometimes "The things I hear in Belly Dance class!". I have a rule about it - "What happens in the harem, stays in the harem". My instructors all continue to use feminine images. Ok, so some of them may not be part of my experience, but I have a brain and can figure it out. "That little muscle below the bra strap" - I don't wear one, but as a married man I certainly know where/how they fit and can figure it out from there! -Zorba "The Veiled Male" Zorba, "The Veiled Male" Last edited by Zorba; 01-16-2007 at 10:34 PM.

01-19-2007, 02:21 AM	#7 (permalink)
Zorba Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 857	I'll add an anecdote about a recent workshop I was in with a VERY famous, well known teacher. She was using terminology like "Ovaries to the wall" and T*ts over toes", and similar to the class of about 75 women - and me. We had an hour break at the halfway point of the 4 hour workshop - she actually sought me out and apologized for her female-centric language, she didn't want me to feel left out, etc, etc. I found this VERY touching - but told her not to worry an instant about it. "In this context, I'm an honorary woman. I'm used to it!" "Ovaries to the wall!" I kinda like it... -Zorba "The Veiled Male" Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

01-21-2007, 11:03 AM	#8 (permalink)
nigma Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 11	Kewl Zorba. you are one of a kind.

02-01-2007, 08:28 AM	#10 (permalink)
Maria_Aya Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Athens, Greece Posts: 2,221	Dear Zorba !!!! What a great story of early years !!! Thanks for sharing and thanks Yasmine to asking Maria Aya