Budding Prima Donnas, Show-offs, etc. - Page 2

Eshta · 06-16-2008, 08:14 PM

Not much to add that's not been said before except to please tread carefully - sometimes/oftentimes the ones with the ego in class are the ones with very low self-esteem in normal life, it's a little tragic

teela · 06-16-2008, 09:05 PM

I'm going to throw this in. It is possible the Prima Donna's, showoffs etc may not see themselves as that. It may be that they are like "wow, look how fast I learned the move, so now I can help others" not realizing that they don't have it quite right, or the form is a shade off or whatever. They just may be sooooooo enthusiastic that wow they have to share. I think sometimes it may be part of the natural progression for certain people as they learn. It is also quite possible that people who learn quickly sometimes may want to move faster and not understand they are not ready to progress as quickly as they think they are.

jenc · 06-17-2008, 06:48 AM

Ok I have done this..............when I saw people doing move entirely wrong and teacher saying nothing............although my first teacher told me beginners didn't want/need technique. This when I asked her about posture. Ok so I may have asked her why she didn't mention it to us and I may have been a little know-it-all............

Amarise · 06-17-2008, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jenc

Ok I have done this..............when I saw people doing move entirely wrong and teacher saying nothing............although my first teacher told me beginners didn't want/need technique. This when I asked her about posture. Ok so I may have asked her why she didn't mention it to us and I may have been a little know-it-all............

I guess I would not term this know it all from your basic description. And when it comes to something as fundamental as posture, I think this is very necessary for a beginner. Not only to look good in the dance, but for physical safety.

But it is all how you mention things or ask questions in class that can make a difference. It is always important to be respectful in your approach to one's teacher.

Amarise

Amarise · 06-17-2008, 07:44 AM

Teela and Eshta, I would agree with both of you.
Amarise

jenc · 06-17-2008, 09:07 AM

I think she perhaps needs more special treatment eg more criticism..............mind you I was myself happy to get more criticism in class cos I thought this meant the teacher thought I was further ahead and needed technique refinement. Perhaps she was just squashing me!!!
Seriously they have to know they are not all that!!-

Aisha Azar · 06-17-2008, 01:27 PM

Dear Gang,
From an instructor's point of view, there really ARE problems when people in class who are just learning themselves try to correct other students:

* It can sometimes undermine the confidence of those that other students try to correct. It can make others feel like they are the only one in class who is not "getting it".

* Sometimes the student who is doing the correcting may see that something is wrong with another student's movement, but not really know how to fix the problem, further adding to the student's confusion.

* If the student who is trying to fix another student were paying attention to the instructor and to her/his own movement, she/he would not have time to be so critical of others. There are always things every dancer can work on to perfect their own movement if they feel that they are ahead of the rest of the class.

* And this happens VERY often. The instructor may see things that the untrained eye does not see, as far as if someone is doing the movement "right" or "wrong". As an example, one of my students studies with me and another teacher. She says the the teacher does not fine tune movements in individual students the way that I do. I tweak from individual accomplishment and my reason is that movement has levels of expertise and innate ability just like playing the piano or any other thing. I must look to help students build on the foundation that they come into class with. So, Student B might be ready to see movement at a whole different level than student A. I will be happy to see Student A use her pelvis, shoulders and whatever other body parts to move a hip circle around, just to have her feel her body make that move and connect with it at her level of ability. She has not yet built on this basic skill and may not ever if she does not have the dance skills innate in herself. She might be there for reasons other than to learn to be a professional belly dancer and I need to be in touch with that. On the other hand, student B has got it going on already and is in touch with concentrating on specific areas of movement (isolation to a degree). I will want her to engage her muscles to pull that circle around with real depth and core strength. Students may not be in a position to see what the teacher sees.

* When I go to another instructor's workshop or dance class, I do not correct even my own students in that class. If someone comes to me with a question, I refer them to the instructor. This is plain courtesy for that other instructor, and this holds true even when I disagree with what that teacher is saying. Outside the class, I may talk to my own students about the information, but in class, I am there to do what that teacher is telling us to do. I work on my own dance and often do not even see what the other students are doing.

I hope this clarifies the situation a little more for the instructor's point of
view.
Regards,
A'isha

jenc · 06-17-2008, 01:44 PM

Oh I agree I realised I shouldn't have done it straight away!!!

Amarise · 06-17-2008, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A'isha Azar

Dear Gang,
From an instructor's point of view, there really ARE problems when people in class who are just learning themselves try to correct other students:

* When I go to another instructor's workshop or dance class, I do not correct even my own students in that class. If someone comes to me with a question, I refer them to the instructor. This is plain courtesy for that other instructor, and this holds true even when I disagree with what that teacher is saying. Outside the class, I may talk to my own students about the information, but in class, I am there to do what that teacher is telling us to do. I work on my own dance and often do not even see what the other students are doing.

I hope this clarifies the situation a little more for the instructor's point of
view.
Regards,
A'isha

A'isha,

I totally agree with you. What my earlier statement was about was I do not mind if a student requests extra help with a detail I may not have gone into enough for their needs.

Amarise

dreamkitaro · 06-19-2008, 11:33 AM

I am a student dealing with a prima donna student in my class. She is very talented. She is just a natural dancer. Unfortunately, she lets everyone know she is. During class and rehearsal for recitals she will talk or rude noises while others are practicing. She is already trying out for the teachers group. She will gossip during rehearsals with girls from that group making snide comments about the other students who are not as talented as she. The teacher is so nice, she doesn't correct or say anything to her. It stresses out the rest of us students and frazzles us. Our classes when that prima donna is not there, flows and is much funner when she's not around. The rest of us are very encouraging to each other. We don't need that prima donna around.

06-16-2008, 08:14 PM	#11 (permalink)
Eshta Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: London, England Posts: 328	Not much to add that's not been said before except to please tread carefully - sometimes/oftentimes the ones with the ego in class are the ones with very low self-esteem in normal life, it's a little tragic __________________ Saqarah - London's monthly Belly Dance Hafla!

06-17-2008, 07:44 AM	#15 (permalink)
Amarise Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Rockford, IL Posts: 46	Teela and Eshta, I would agree with both of you. Amarise __________________ http://amarisedance.com Last edited by Amarise; 07-31-2008 at 06:27 PM.

06-17-2008, 01:27 PM	#17 (permalink)
Aisha Azar V.I.P. Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Pacific Northwest USA Posts: 4,458	Dance Dear Gang, From an instructor's point of view, there really ARE problems when people in class who are just learning themselves try to correct other students: * It can sometimes undermine the confidence of those that other students try to correct. It can make others feel like they are the only one in class who is not "getting it". * Sometimes the student who is doing the correcting may see that something is wrong with another student's movement, but not really know how to fix the problem, further adding to the student's confusion. * If the student who is trying to fix another student were paying attention to the instructor and to her/his own movement, she/he would not have time to be so critical of others. There are always things every dancer can work on to perfect their own movement if they feel that they are ahead of the rest of the class. * And this happens VERY often. The instructor may see things that the untrained eye does not see, as far as if someone is doing the movement "right" or "wrong". As an example, one of my students studies with me and another teacher. She says the the teacher does not fine tune movements in individual students the way that I do. I tweak from individual accomplishment and my reason is that movement has levels of expertise and innate ability just like playing the piano or any other thing. I must look to help students build on the foundation that they come into class with. So, Student B might be ready to see movement at a whole different level than student A. I will be happy to see Student A use her pelvis, shoulders and whatever other body parts to move a hip circle around, just to have her feel her body make that move and connect with it at her level of ability. She has not yet built on this basic skill and may not ever if she does not have the dance skills innate in herself. She might be there for reasons other than to learn to be a professional belly dancer and I need to be in touch with that. On the other hand, student B has got it going on already and is in touch with concentrating on specific areas of movement (isolation to a degree). I will want her to engage her muscles to pull that circle around with real depth and core strength. Students may not be in a position to see what the teacher sees. * When I go to another instructor's workshop or dance class, I do not correct even my own students in that class. If someone comes to me with a question, I refer them to the instructor. This is plain courtesy for that other instructor, and this holds true even when I disagree with what that teacher is saying. Outside the class, I may talk to my own students about the information, but in class, I am there to do what that teacher is telling us to do. I work on my own dance and often do not even see what the other students are doing. I hope this clarifies the situation a little more for the instructor's point of view. Regards, A'isha

06-16-2008, 09:05 PM	#12 (permalink)
teela Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Alaska Posts: 292	I'm going to throw this in. It is possible the Prima Donna's, showoffs etc may not see themselves as that. It may be that they are like "wow, look how fast I learned the move, so now I can help others" not realizing that they don't have it quite right, or the form is a shade off or whatever. They just may be sooooooo enthusiastic that wow they have to share. I think sometimes it may be part of the natural progression for certain people as they learn. It is also quite possible that people who learn quickly sometimes may want to move faster and not understand they are not ready to progress as quickly as they think they are.

06-17-2008, 06:48 AM	#13 (permalink)
jenc V.I.P. Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Colchester UK Posts: 1,023	Ok I have done this..............when I saw people doing move entirely wrong and teacher saying nothing............although my first teacher told me beginners didn't want/need technique. This when I asked her about posture. Ok so I may have asked her why she didn't mention it to us and I may have been a little know-it-all............

06-17-2008, 09:07 AM	#16 (permalink)
jenc V.I.P. Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Colchester UK Posts: 1,023	I think she perhaps needs more special treatment eg more criticism..............mind you I was myself happy to get more criticism in class cos I thought this meant the teacher thought I was further ahead and needed technique refinement. Perhaps she was just squashing me!!! Seriously they have to know they are not all that!!-

06-17-2008, 01:44 PM	#18 (permalink)
jenc V.I.P. Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Colchester UK Posts: 1,023	Oh I agree I realised I shouldn't have done it straight away!!!

06-19-2008, 11:33 AM	#20 (permalink)
dreamkitaro Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Philly, PA Posts: 3	I am a student dealing with a prima donna student in my class. She is very talented. She is just a natural dancer. Unfortunately, she lets everyone know she is. During class and rehearsal for recitals she will talk or rude noises while others are practicing. She is already trying out for the teachers group. She will gossip during rehearsals with girls from that group making snide comments about the other students who are not as talented as she. The teacher is so nice, she doesn't correct or say anything to her. It stresses out the rest of us students and frazzles us. Our classes when that prima donna is not there, flows and is much funner when she's not around. The rest of us are very encouraging to each other. We don't need that prima donna around.