First Zills (And Problems That Come With) - Page 4

Aziyade · 07-21-2008, 04:38 PM

Z-Helene's video threw me over the edge when it came to cymbal obsession.

I use Jamila Salimpour's Cd, which is basically what Cathy et al described -- although she uses the numbers 12345678 and the odd numbers are your dominant hand with the even numbers being the non-dominant hand.

Course, Suhaila makes us learn and drill every pattern using both dominant leading AND non-dominant leading, which is what Z-Helen's video also goes over.

Z-Helene gets something like 6 sounds out of hers. I've been working with this video for YEARS and I still have things to practice. The only drawback is that she teaches cymbal playing sitting down, which is not as effective as walking with them or doing basic steps with them.

In my advanced classes, we used to drill all the traveling movements with different cymbal patterns over them. I'm resurrecting this because I think it's GREAT practice. And I had the students listen to their fave percussion cds and pick out the different cymbal patterns in the songs. They would often "discover" new patterns this way, or new accents to old rhythms

Zorba · 07-22-2008, 04:21 AM

Everybody needs to do what works for them - I don't have a "dominant" hand when it comes to Zilling which was my instinctive approach and coincidentally is that of the gal who taught me pretty much everything I know about Zilling: i.e. RLR LRL RLR...

She says that you can play much faster if you do it this way - which makes sense. She certainly can play circles around just about anyone!

All this said, other teachers such as Aziza Sai'id, stick strictly with the dominant hand technique because they like the option of using different Zills on each hand - so there's certainly room for both schools of thought.

BUT - I can switch to "dominant hand" style playing if I want to at any time - it really isn't that hard to do. Therefore I still tend to lean towards the non-"dominant hand" or "alternating hand" style.

Your Mileage May Vary!

jenc · 07-22-2008, 06:03 AM

Interesting. I try to use either my dominant (left) or non-dominant when I set out but find it switches half way through, then I get confused. Is this because I'm left-handed, or does it happen to every beginner

Ankebuzz · 07-22-2008, 08:33 AM

We just started playing zills a few weeks ago... any other ideas for muffling zills (besides baby socks) like something I'd have in my house right now?

Aziyade · 07-22-2008, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jenc

Interesting. I try to use either my dominant (left) or non-dominant when I set out but find it switches half way through, then I get confused. Is this because I'm left-handed, or does it happen to every beginner

I think this just happens to people not used to playing cymbals. You might try Zorba's way-- we call those "Alternating lead triples" -- 123 456 -- RLR LRL RLR LRL.

Mufflers:

Shira has a pattern for a crocheted zill muffler on her site.

You can also use pantyhose, or a piece of scotch tape around the edge of the cymbals.

One of my old groupmates made "fake" cymbals out of plastic plates. She could practice better than air-zilling, but they didn't really make noise. The problem with this is that there is no weight to the "cymbal" and when you take them off and put real cymbals on, it's like learning all over again.

nightdancer · 07-27-2008, 02:34 PM

I am so glad to have read this. We did zills yesterday and I was so frustrated, I was almost in tears. First of all, my zills suck. Second, I cant hear the rhythms for anything. My teacher said if you cant hear it, or lose it, to stop and let your feet or your hip pick it up, then go back. "The hip hears when the ear cannot".

I need new zills. I think perhaps if I had a different pair, I'd not despise zills so much.

**edit** trying to buys zills. Both Saroyan and Turquoise checkout processes are being harder than it should be. Making me stabby!

Reen.Blom · 07-28-2008, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nightdancer

I am so glad to have read this. We did zills yesterday and I was so frustrated, I was almost in tears. First of all, my zills suck. Second, I cant hear the rhythms for anything. My teacher said if you cant hear it, or lose it, to stop and let your feet or your hip pick it up, then go back. "The hip hears when the ear cannot".

I need new zills. I think perhaps if I had a different pair, I'd not despise zills so much.

**edit** trying to buys zills. Both Saroyan and Turquoise checkout processes are being harder than it should be. Making me stabby!

what zills you got that you are not happy with? And which ones are you getting?

Zorba · 07-29-2008, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nightdancer

I...I was so frustrated, I was almost in tears.

I was in a class once, where a gal was so frustrated that she suddenly threw her zills across the room!

Hang in there - you *can* do this! It just isn't easy...

jenc · 07-29-2008, 05:28 AM

Have you tried beating rythms on your body until you get them? See Drills, Drills, Drills by Michelle Joyce

lizaj · 07-29-2008, 08:20 AM

To throw a brass spanner in the works. Is there anyone else who like me doesn't actually like listening to the dancer who clatters away to "canned music" with her zills?
I have no problem with a dancer playing them skilfully along with an Egyptian band..this seems somehow correct..They are musical instruments and she is one of the musicians as well as dancing.
But oh my... if I listen and watch the dancer who bangs away at her favourite pattern and drowns out the music she is dancing to, I get rather .......

At least few European dancers seem to do it!But I recently watched a US dancer and just wanted to see if I could see her "connection to the music" ..as you do! But couldn't hear the pieces through the godawful racket of her zills.

07-22-2008, 04:21 AM	#32 (permalink)
Zorba Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 857	Everybody needs to do what works for them - I don't have a "dominant" hand when it comes to Zilling which was my instinctive approach and coincidentally is that of the gal who taught me pretty much everything I know about Zilling: i.e. RLR LRL RLR... She says that you can play much faster if you do it this way - which makes sense. She certainly can play circles around just about anyone! All this said, other teachers such as Aziza Sai'id, stick strictly with the dominant hand technique because they like the option of using different Zills on each hand - so there's certainly room for both schools of thought. BUT - I can switch to "dominant hand" style playing if I want to at any time - it really isn't that hard to do. Therefore I still tend to lean towards the non-"dominant hand" or "alternating hand" style. Your Mileage May Vary! __________________ -Zorba "The Veiled Male" http://www.doubleveil.net "There is nothing sadder than a veil, that is for sale."

07-22-2008, 08:33 AM	#34 (permalink)
Ankebuzz Junior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: I live in Johannesburg in South Africa Posts: 44	We just started playing zills a few weeks ago... any other ideas for muffling zills (besides baby socks) like something I'd have in my house right now? __________________ Ankebuzzzzzzzzzz

07-27-2008, 02:34 PM	#36 (permalink)
nightdancer Moderator Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Below the Mason-Dixon Posts: 236	I am so glad to have read this. We did zills yesterday and I was so frustrated, I was almost in tears. First of all, my zills suck. Second, I cant hear the rhythms for anything. My teacher said if you cant hear it, or lose it, to stop and let your feet or your hip pick it up, then go back. "The hip hears when the ear cannot". I need new zills. I think perhaps if I had a different pair, I'd not despise zills so much. edit trying to buys zills. Both Saroyan and Turquoise checkout processes are being harder than it should be. Making me stabby! Last edited by nightdancer; 07-27-2008 at 04:05 PM.

07-21-2008, 04:38 PM	#31 (permalink)
Aziyade V.I.P. Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Cornfields of Evansville Indiana. Posts: 1,050	Z-Helene's video threw me over the edge when it came to cymbal obsession. I use Jamila Salimpour's Cd, which is basically what Cathy et al described -- although she uses the numbers 12345678 and the odd numbers are your dominant hand with the even numbers being the non-dominant hand. Course, Suhaila makes us learn and drill every pattern using both dominant leading AND non-dominant leading, which is what Z-Helen's video also goes over. Z-Helene gets something like 6 sounds out of hers. I've been working with this video for YEARS and I still have things to practice. The only drawback is that she teaches cymbal playing sitting down, which is not as effective as walking with them or doing basic steps with them. In my advanced classes, we used to drill all the traveling movements with different cymbal patterns over them. I'm resurrecting this because I think it's GREAT practice. And I had the students listen to their fave percussion cds and pick out the different cymbal patterns in the songs. They would often "discover" new patterns this way, or new accents to old rhythms

07-22-2008, 06:03 AM	#33 (permalink)
jenc V.I.P. Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Colchester UK Posts: 1,023	Interesting. I try to use either my dominant (left) or non-dominant when I set out but find it switches half way through, then I get confused. Is this because I'm left-handed, or does it happen to every beginner

07-29-2008, 05:28 AM	#39 (permalink)
jenc V.I.P. Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Colchester UK Posts: 1,023	Have you tried beating rythms on your body until you get them? See Drills, Drills, Drills by Michelle Joyce

07-29-2008, 08:20 AM	#40 (permalink)
lizaj Moderator Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: UK Posts: 1,240	To throw a brass spanner in the works. Is there anyone else who like me doesn't actually like listening to the dancer who clatters away to "canned music" with her zills? I have no problem with a dancer playing them skilfully along with an Egyptian band..this seems somehow correct..They are musical instruments and she is one of the musicians as well as dancing. But oh my... if I listen and watch the dancer who bangs away at her favourite pattern and drowns out the music she is dancing to, I get rather ....... At least few European dancers seem to do it!But I recently watched a US dancer and just wanted to see if I could see her "connection to the music" ..as you do! But couldn't hear the pieces through the godawful racket of her zills.