Zumarrad

No. If you're leaning back you have less room to move your chest because you're compressing your back. Egyptian dancers tend to have their chests more forward than anything, at least these days.

adiemus

midline would seem to me to be the best way to ensure sufficient ROM...

BTW as a self-confessed duck walker, my lordosis is made up of forward tilted pelvis, limited hip extension (with tightened and shortened quads, long hammies, and not enough lower abdominal strength to tilt the pelvis back far enough) - this means I need to work on strengthening the long, weak muscles, and lengthening/stretching the short, tight ones.
Until I do this, I have to compromise on the posture I can achieve from thoracic and cervical area as my lumbar spine curves more and the other two have curve to accommodate it. But remember, posture is dynamic - it's there to serve us and to form the basis for our movements - so we're aiming for an efficient posture from which to do the movements we need to do.

__________________
He wahine, he taonga- Every woman is a treasure(Maori proverb)

jenc

Perhaaps I mean shoulders well back. It would make sense theat western dancers took this to be a lean back, getting it ever so slightly wrong by making posture more self conscious. You can't do those shoulder driven upper body movements unless shoulders are back, and by the way that will also push chest forward.

I see a slight backwards list in Fifi dancing, or is that my eyesight

Moon

My teacher says that "shoulders back" thing is a Western invention (in ballet and ballroom and such) and that it's actually an unnatural posture and Egyptian dancers don't do it. They stand more relaxed. Straight up ofcourse, but not with the shoulders back.

Kashmir

I missed that thread - it could be they were saying that extreme tuck is not a good idea. For instance, as much as I like a lot of what Shareen el Safy teaches her extreme pelvic tuck and hold a dime between your cheeks is not part of it!

"Neutral pelvis" is what I think most teachers mean when they say tucked. That is the position where the pelvis is neither tilted neither forward or back. In neutral the anterior hip bone is slightly lower than the posterior superior iliac spine - so if you want to go poking your students pelvis ....

The other problem with terminology is that many students will interpret "tuck your pelvis" as just that and pull their butts down making it all too tight to dance. In the last year or so I've changed it to "lift the front" and I have a hand gesture.

For many people, softening the knees is a requirement to a neutral pelvis. Actually bending the knees, though, help many people initially get some hip moves. The only reason not to bend the knees in perfromance is purely aethestics - bent knees and lycra look odd! You could get aways with it with the old style full skirts.

Zumarrad

I've just started exploring Shareen's posture, due to having bought a DVD of hers, and I think it's handy for *certain* work. The way she's teaching on Maryat al Ayam is not "dime between your cheeks" tight, but having some tension in the butt and also in the adductors (which seems to happen automatically with the pelvic lift/butt combo), which she believes helps protect the knees in Egyptian style dance because we're generally putting quite a bit of stress on the outer part of the leg. Well, I can tell you that doing a Souhair Zaki hip chonk thingy (you all know the one) in this posture, which is only a tiny modification of my normal one, no longer gives me sore outer thighs. I suspect it's also good for Shareen's leg shimmy. All the difference I sense really is that instead of just lifting my pubic bone and engaging my lower abs, letting the butt be soft, I'm tucking the tailbone under as well - which is actually what I was taught to do right back in the old days, before I started trying to keep the glutes loose a la Hadia.

On the other hand, a nice hip rock shimmy is most fun with a loose butt.

belly_dancer

oh my oh my!!
1st off have to LMAO abt the "duck butt" a phrase I always have used going on 12 years now (thought I was a bit "off"!!!) hehehe glad to know this is common BD terminology!
I HAVE found esp,. with new students.. & a couple of hard core knee lockers... that emphasizing BENT knees (when I really mean "soft") will get the point across much more quickly...
AND....as far as "tucking the butt", ...... I used to say that alot... but found that it changed the "duck butts" into "lounge lizards"... (ok... go with me here... stand up now & assume the "duck butt" position, then instead of pulling up your pelvis & lengthening your low back just simply PUSH your pelvis forward (now the weight (& your hips) is over your toes, your shoulders are over your heels (& for some reason tend to sink a bit), & your lower back is CRUNCHED))
NOW (go back to duck butt from lounge lizard~~~btw that is the technical term for the slightly aging/polyester & gold chain wearing/smarmy/greasy guy who trys to pick you up at any one of a number of bars across the US- on & off screen!) I tell em to pull up the pelvis (up towards the belly button) & LENGTHEN THE LOWER SPINE... so imagine that the measure btwn your pubic bone & belly button is 7" & btwn your tail bone & mid back (at waist level) is 6".... I want you to reverse this.... THEN relax the belly muscles ALL the while keeping the weight neutral btwn the toes/heels.... then MAINTAIN this posture while rocking back & forth (NOT the pelvis... but putting the weight into the toes, then into the heels).....
eeeeek sooooo hard to explain.... let me know if anyone "got" it!!!!

but of course, long story short... Brea... SOUNDS like you are ok here... as long as now complaints from students..... maybe you should be asking them (about any pain/discomfort).... the ONLY complaint (KNOCK on wood!!!!!) I have had was from a dedicated knee locker... she went to another teacher then came back & said... well SHE told me to bend my knees (luckily she did this IN class where I had many of her studio mates... they were like... WELL belly_dancer tells you (& us) that 10x per class!!!)... but AGAIN>>>> another good reason for multiple teachers.......
ANOTHER (weird)issue I have found after years of teaching... I am TALL... so in MY class SHORT girls sometimes have (more) issues (than tall girls) w/ bending their knees????!!!!! (GO FIGURE!!!)
so I MENTION to them that I always had issues going on the balls of my feet (with my 1st (short!!) teacher... but BOTH positions have their place!!!!

I think it boils down to.... what is that phrase... you cannot please ALL the people ALL the time!!!!!
so... just keep looking around (your class) & correct (as necessary) the postures/movements & find as many DIFFERENT ways as possible of explaining the SAME move/posture... that way MORE will catch on!!! (but when they do... LET em know that THEY have got it!!!

belly_dancer

oh yeah... forgot to say that in my advanced class (& with my adult children!!!!) I then tell em that "rules" are meant to be broken... & (for my class... not my children... they have other rules to "break!")... that changing the posture (as long as your body has the strength not to hurt itself!) is ONE of the ways of changing the move.... (for instance... a "camel" is a pretty universal move..... but HOW you do it (in some cases posture/in other cases WHERE it originates, not to mention musical choices etc... but that is not THIS thread!) will differentiate btwn Egyptian/tribal/Turkish/etc....