sedoniaraqs

I didn't mean joint degenerations or osteoarthritis, so I guess I should not have included "joint". I was referring to the work of Dr. Steven Stark, who wrote "The stark reality of stretching". His comments on some ballet bar stretches were that they tend to damage and over stretch *ligaments* and *tendons* (I think because they are compound stretches), especially when people begin such extreme stretching regimes as adults rather than young children, and over time this can lead to destabilization of the function of joints. He said this could happen even if the stretch did not produce pain. Is his work invalid?

Brea

I teach the soft knee, neutral pelvis, long spine...so I am doing it right! Whew. I am happy about that. It's so great to have this forum as a sounding board, with so many well-informed dancers!!

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jenc

from Sarah Shrapnell's site
Lets Belly Dance

Knees--off lock, which means they have a little give. Don't bend you knees as this is far too much like hard work and will hurt tomorrow, but also don't lock you knees tight as you can do damage by twisting on the knee joints. Just a little bit of bounce is fine--think about how you stand on a boat to ride the waves, or one the underground.

Hips--they are in neutral, which is different for different people but basically means that your tail bone should point down. I find people fit into two camps when they first come to class--there are those who wear high heels and pull in their bums and tummies all day, they tend to be a bit over tucked for this dance--then there are those who let their tummies and bums stick out a bit more and they tend to be under tucked. If in doubt don't do anything until your teacher has adjusted you.

Although this doesn't allow for some people having more "booty" it does allow for different natural postures, whic seems to be where some confusin has crept in

Moon

Usually the persons who wear high heels are the ones who stick out their butts and stand with locked knees .

Suheir

Yes, I think *you're* correct, Moon!

adiemus

WRT stretching, there is some pretty useful research (can't recall the references at present) that indicated that stretching before exercise makes little or no difference to muscle strain/pain, and there has been evidence for quite some time that stretching on cold muscles can cause inflammation of tendon sheaths and subsequently can inflame the tendon. Some work has been carried out on 'microtears' of the tendons, but this is still a contentious area because most athletes rely on microtears and irritation of the muscle fibres as part of training - this is how muscles get larger and more efficient.
Again, it's the force involved (and with tendons it's often the repetition) that contributes to things like tendonitis and tenosynovitis. Rupture of the tendons requires really high impact although complete rupture (eg of achilles tendon) may occur after there has been partial rupture for some time then it may take a lesser force to achieve the full rupture.
Stretching over two joints really only increases the amount of force that is applied to the muscle/tendon/ligament unit, so a little less force is needed compared with when stretch is applied over one joint.
And tendons have less blood supply, so take longer to settle than muscle.
Sorry to have confused OA and tendon/ligament problems... although the result is quite similar, we're pretty hardy animals except where we ignore discomfort and persist with inefficient biomechanical movements or don't allow sufficient recovery period between training sessions.

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Khaira

I talk about vertical pelvis, this is generally understood

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Brea

I have some students who are self-confessed 'duck walkers'. ! I think posture is important to discuss because some people do need the correction.

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Shanazel

Old style American Cabaret emphasized leaning back (not to mention very bent knees) and is the way I learned to dance back in the Dark Ages. The weight was over the heels, but not on the heels, if you can follow that bit of logic- you can't dance on the balls of your feet of your weight is on your heels. Styles change and now American dancers are much more upright than in the past. I'm still a leaner when I dance, I confess. Though I don't insist my students keep a AmCab lean, I do prefer to see more bend to the knees than some teachers.

jenc

Would you not agree that a slight lean in the upper back gives egyptian UPPER bodies a freedom of movement that is lacking in some western chest figure 8s etc.