adiemus

I learned music from an early age also, so I understand what people mean by not being NOT able to hear rhythm! But I did wonder whether this woman can hear the melodies? If she can, perhaps she is a dancer who could draw more from the melody than the beat? ie, pick out phrases that she can hear and dance to each one? I see Egyptian dancers flow between beat and melody and often don't stick to just the rhythm... If she can pick out the melody then each musical phrase is often the beginning of a bar, and this might help her pick out just the first beat of a bar.

__________________
He wahine, he taonga- Every woman is a treasure(Maori proverb)

Kashmir

Could be a range of things. Could be that even after a couple of years she is unfamiliar with ME music - can she get the beat with Western 4/4? If so, you could try working with just simple drum.

Could she have hearing problems? If you visually mark the beat can she follow?

Could be co-ordination. She hears it but can't make her body response quickly enough. You could try slooooow music - or just stepping on the dums.

Could be a brain thing - she doesn't have a beat receptor - or whatever the technical term is - like being colour blind.

Reminds me of a student years back who had a problem in this area and worked really, really hard to overcome it. Bought a metronome and tried to train herself by force of will. Bought a drum and learnt the rhythms. But was still just subtley off. Even ended up in a Middle Eastern band for a short time before they threw her out.

If this is your student, her future may be in solo work to mainly lyrical pieces.

Mosaic

Having come to ME dance around 3 years ago, ( in my 50s)and never having had music training of any sort, I had problems with hearing the beat, and co-ordination. It was so frustrating, It has just taken time, a lot of time of training my 'ears', and I found using slow music and just listeming and swaying to the underlying beat helped me, then I began to use slightly faster music, and would get up and dance to it, I did well at home, but once in class I would find that at first I would be OK, but as the lesson went on, I would find another instrument "talking" to me, and unconsciously I would suddenly begin to move to that instrument, talk about forcing my body/mind back to what it was suppose to be doing, I would get so annoyed with myself. The other thing is my instructor always tells me I think too much, and that throws me off. Even when I try to stop 'thinking' and just go with the flow, it doesn't always happen. I am getting better, I play ME music several hours a day, and just dance around when the drive to do so comes along and the exposure has helped a lot.

I notice in class the younger ones tend to find the rhythm/beat very quickly, and the older you are especially without some musical background, the slower you are at tuning in.

I think it is wonderful that your student continues to stick with it and that you continue to help her. Maybe your student is like me, and thinks too much and the thinking overides all else. The thinking I believe is a fear of messing up and looking foolish and of course that causes you to mess up LOL! Maybe she will never quite get it, but as was suggested if she dances with a group and can follow she will still have a sense of achievement and pride in getting out there and dancing.
~Mosaic

Moon

That is very interesting. I wonder if that happens to most people who can't seem to hear the beat. Maybe they can hear the beat, but other instruments just sound "stronger" in their brains?

Jane

Update on working with The Student who needs beat help:

I saw her in class Tuesday night and at lunch today (Thursday). I had the class clap to a metronome, then put it on silent and kept them clapping, turned it back on and saw if they were still on. We mixed that up quite a bit and then did it individually. Very interesting! Most people were great at it, The Student had to concentrate very hard, but she could do it.

Then we put in a basic 4/4 Masmoudi Saghir (Baladi) and went through the same process. Everyone kept up and clapped along just fine, The Student had a harder time with this. Next we put in real music and did the same thing. This is where The Student really fell apart. It's very hard for her to find the beat with the rhythm and the melody in the context of regular music. Problem identified! Now I know what I can work with her on and keep an eye out for.

I told everyone about the tick-tock clock in bed idea, and a few said they'd try it.

Just for fun after class, I tried to get everyone to clap between the beats, nobody could do it, but they had a fun time trying and laughed a lot!

Next Tuesday we're going to try dancing off the beat.

Thanks for all the input folks!

Jane

The hardest part was getting myself to hold still and let them do it. I had to keep stopping my head from nodding, my foot from tapping, and my hips from moving!

Jane

That's a possibility. I usually latch on to whatever is stronger in the music at the time, but sometimes I'll dance to the not so strong layer to bring it out. Even if the beat isn't the strongest element in the music, it's still there. Well except for taxim- or is it? Is there still a counted beat during a taxim? I never really thought about that before.

I mostly feel the beat in my feet, the rhythm in my hips and the melody in the upper body. Is this an American BD thing, a me thing, or does everyone do this?

karena

Have you tried an different rhythm? I find masmoudi one of the odder ones, as it has a slightly going over the beat feel. Have you tried something like maqsoum or saidi? I find they are simpler as they are more obviously regular (but they may totally just be me and the way I am processing them in my brain. I have to at some point actually beat time so I can see exactly where the beats are to satisfy my musical brain. So I know that musically, masmoudi seems more complex, but I don't know if that translates outside of that frame.).
And I see taxim as a bit like a western cadenza, which is where the soloist improvises on the theme, and can play around with the phrasing. So there is still a beat in that there is a structure, but it is not a repetitive, same tempo beat in the same way. Interesting thought though, can there be music without a beat? If only there was a music academic to tell us the debate on that one.

__________________
"Nothing is black and white, it's all shades of grey" Me

Jane

I'll add that to my list. Thanks!