Jane

I'm going to try everything! It may take some time of course- we'll see if anything takes. I see her again next Tuesday. I'm going to space some things out so she won't lose the confidence she has. I think I'll try some of the ideas with all of my students in turn and then also work with my beat-less lady before or after class as well.

Intersting theory about trying to not dance on the beat Karena. I'd like to try that with all my students and see what happens! Lydia, I definatly treasure her as a student and as a person, I admire her for sticking with belly dance when it dosen't come easy for her. Sedonia, I agree that people with no rhythm are very few and far between, I've only met two in my life time, this student and my Dad! Janaki, I love the metronome idea. I have a small electronic one I keep in my dance bag, but I never thought to use it that way. KateNurse, hearing loss was the first thing that came to my mind too, but I asker her and she said her hearings fine. Marya, I'll try to stay tactful and patient- I promise My beat-less lady is around 40ish if I had to take a guess; does anyone think that taking up dance at a later age has anything to do with it? I think it's more likely an individual issue.

Moon

I think people can be born with a natural talent for hearing the beat. But going to music lessons or dance lessons at an early age will definitely help developing the skill. If this lady never had music or dance lessons before her late 30s, I would think it could take some more time before she develops the skill.

Maria_Aya

I think found this thread kind of late, great advices from all !!!
As a rythm/beat/dum/teq exersice we walk around the class on the dum, just walking, they get bored, i mean walking for once per month in different rythms for 20 min!! they want to kill me, we joke mean time, I try to make them forget the music, tease eachother, forget the music, but still keep on walking on the dum till it comes natural.
It helps alot in general, but yes I do have students that doesnt hear the dum, and general the rythm.
But what can we do if we have students like this, and dont take privite lessons? we cant stop a whole class because of this, so try to put it in the teaching method.

maria aya

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karena

Re the age thing, I have been playing an instrument from an early age which I think is why I cannot avoid hearing a beat. I've also therefore developed the tools to articulate that beat, eg I'll do a really tiny beating of the time with my hand when I am first trying to understand it, because I know how the hand moves when it's beating in time. So I think it has a part to play. In terms of my theory about convincing yourself that you can't hear the beat, imo the student will have had a long time to reiterate in her mind that idea that she can't hear the beat, so age embeds that idea further, so being older could increase that

(btw, I was thinking the other day that I didn't want anyone to thing I am saying the not being able to hear the beat isn't 'real'. I think everything we do or 'can't' do comes down to our belief system. So all the positive as well as the negative stems from this same place, so I'm not saying one iota that it is 'just in her mind' in a derogatory sense; everything is just in our minds. If that makes any sense...)

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Eve

good suggestions in the thread, regarding age, I take singing lessons and the running joke at home is 'you've been going x amount of years and you still take lessons?'
Well yes because before going to lessons we have lots of years of using our body (voice) in a certain way. For an hour or so a week we are looking to change a habit that has been with us for years 24hours a day. So it will take time and conscious effort. The plus side is you start to become aware when you misalign and can begin to self adjust.

Aniseteph

I think it's real. Usually I don't have any problems, but occasionally it takes me a while to "get" the beat with some of those more unusual ones. It's very confusing while you are there, so I sympathise with your student.

I saw a YouTube with someone dancing to I Put a Spell on You (Natacha Atlas version) which I'm very familiar with and it's really "easy" beat-wise, but the audience were clapping along loudly and on an odd beat. I could hear the melody and the drum beats but they didn't form into the right pattern, it was just notes and drums and my brain wouldn't put it together as music. Very strange. When I watched it again knowing what it was, I could hear the music fine.

I do think music/dance at an early age helps - much easier to just absorb things then. When you are older it takes longer, and you can make it harder if you keep thinking oh I'll never get this.

Azrael

I am a student, so maybe this is completely useless advice coming from me...
I teach one of my friends on and off (lets make her name Sue). Sue always begs me to teach her dances - she never wants to concentrate on the actual moves, and combo's. Her dad is a musician, so I find it really strange that growing up with a musical background that she also struggles to find the beat.
She can remember dances just fine, but she seems to act as though the dance and the music are 2 seperate entities.
I used to struggle with finding the beat, and I feel that sometimes its quite easy to hear the beat if I sit down and just listen to the music for a bit.
In my classes we only get the music once we have learnt the dance, so when I get a song at the end of learning one of our dances, I'll sit and listen to it once, (JUST listening) then the second time around, I close my eyes and imagine myself doing it. It helps me find the beats in all the right places because im not concentrating on DOING the moves.

Dont know if this'll help... try it out?

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Yasmine Bint Al Nubia

Great thread! But may I make a statement?
We seem to focus on 'the beat' as if there is only one? Turkish and Arabic music is infused with many beats at diffeent tempos. For the Western ear and new dancer it is difficult to hear all of them and know they are all part of the music. Also too, the drum may be the foundation, but sometimes it will weave in and out of the song.

So Jane which 'beat' are you trying to ge her to hear? Or are you talking about a specific rhythmic pattern?
Can she tell the difference between drums and other instruments?

I have many students who are challenged in terms of music and moving at the same time. Patience and acceptance are the true teachers in this instance. I can't imagine another dance form that would be more forgiving than belly dance...so I'm glad to hear that she's sticking with it(and you too!)
Yasmine

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Jane

This student has been dancing for two years. I play all types of Middle Eastern music, including non-dance stuff also, just to listen to before and after class and during stretching, for familiarity sake. I carefully explain these basic concepts on a regular basis:

types/countries
layering of musical elements
instruments
maqam
time signatures
rhythms
quarter & microtones
melody
taxeem
call & response
lown
famous singers/songs/composers

The beat is the first thing I explain. "There is an underlying pulse to the music, even when not pronounced, that can change tempo during the song, this is the beat."

We clap together, then walk on the beat, then strike a zill on the dominant hand while walking to the beat, etc. I try to stress feeling the beat because I think this is the fist thing average people can find in a new music form. This student is still unable to do this alone after two years. When she dances alone she goes through the student chorography perfectly, but as if there is no music playing at all. I put out the blanket statement about "being an active listener" and "letting the music flow through your body and come out as dance", but it's not working for her.

I see her tonight in class, I'll try some of the suggestions and see if anything helps her. I'll let you guys know how it goes.

Marya

I went to a folk dance workshop (Armenian) recently and was reminded of how much that type of dance helped me with hearing the meter of the music. I highly recommend Balkan Folkdancing as an exercise for learning to hear the music better.

I didn't have much musical training when I was young, I had some which is why I can recognize the different notes on sheet music and can actually read music a little, but I really didn't have much talent, I can't tell sharp from flat. I also had some dance lessons when really young, because my sister taught ballet, but I truly found folkdancing to be the key to being a better dancer.

Marya