Money to be in a dance performance? - Page 2

Aisha Azar · 05-25-2007, 02:33 PM

Dear Group,
It is really common for dancers to pay to dance. At festivals, every time you go onto a stage to dance for free, etc. We are doing some pretty terrible things and teaching our students to crave performance enough to do anything to dance. It is OUR OWN FAULT!!!!!!!!!!!!
My dance company rarely dances for free and NEVER pays to dance. It is one of the principles that I try to live by. We do one free event a year, where NO ONE gets paid and the audience is allowed into the event for free. It is a multicultural event put together by the Spokane Folklore Society. We also occasionally do a charity event.
If I get paid, so does everyone else on the stage. When I do student nights, I do not charge the dancers, only the audience.
A couple of years ago one of the people who is bringing biggies in from Egypt sent me a form letter asking me if I would dance in the evening show. My "payment: was to be that I got to see the rest of the show for free. No thanks.
If we do not respect eaqch other enough to pay each performer on our stages, how can we expect anyone else to pay us? Yes, it means I majke less profit, but I also have let each dancer know that I appreciate her/his contributions to the success of the production. Without them, I have no show!!!
I may dance alot less because of this precedent, but I also get paid when I dance, as I and every other dancer on stage should be!!!
Regards,
A'isha

taheya · 05-25-2007, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Dear Group,
It is really common for dancers to pay to dance. At festivals, every time you go onto a stage to dance for free, etc. We are doing some pretty terrible things and teaching our students to crave performance enough to do anything to dance. It is OUR OWN FAULT!!!!!!!!!!!!
My dance company rarely dances for free and NEVER pays to dance. It is one of the principles that I try to live by. We do one free event a year, where NO ONE gets paid and the audience is allowed into the event for free. It is a multicultural event put together by the Spokane Folklore Society. We also occasionally do a charity event.
If I get paid, so does everyone else on the stage. When I do student nights, I do not charge the dancers, only the audience.
A couple of years ago one of the people who is bringing biggies in from Egypt sent me a form letter asking me if I would dance in the evening show. My "payment: was to be that I got to see the rest of the show for free. No thanks.
If we do not respect eaqch other enough to pay each performer on our stages, how can we expect anyone else to pay us? Yes, it means I majke less profit, but I also have let each dancer know that I appreciate her/his contributions to the success of the production. Without them, I have no show!!!
I may dance alot less because of this precedent, but I also get paid when I dance, as I and every other dancer on stage should be!!!
Regards,
A'isha

I think this is absolutely what we should all be doing. It is the only way to raise the credibility of the dance. If we dance for free or worse are asked to PAY to dance (!!!) the message is that we are not worth being paid and not presenting a valid dance form. Can you imagine ballet or other types of performers doing it for free? It would not happen.

KuteNurse · 05-25-2007, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by janaki

Unbelievable!!! I did get charged for rehearsals when I was starting out to perform. I thought it was strange. Since I live in a money minded society, Hong Kong, I thought, may be that is how things work here. I protested against this. Things are different now!!!!! Rules have been changed!!!

I handle my students differently. We provide costumes, music, props, free studio time, if they like to rehearse on their own etc., If they are new to performances, we may not pay them all the time. We recruit them as understudies and we cover all their expenses. If the client sets aside budget for them we will pay them. If we do a charity perfromance, we will give them few bellydance classes for free or we reward them with music cds or zills or veils. Never never never take from the students!!!h

Kutenurse, this instructor sounds like she is from another planet!!! I can't believe that she is getting away with it. I am glad you are switching soon!!!!

Thanks Janaki...I think she really does have some mental issues. I will say she is a talented dancer in most respects, she just lacks social skills for being a teacher. I believe she has a business degree, which may explain the charges for the performance, however, most dancers already have so many expenses and she makes a fortune on her performance from selling tickets, I would think that would be enough. I am not saying teachers should not make any money, because I can tell they work very hard working with students and planning performances and choreography, but I think this teacher really has gone over the edge for expenses. It is nice to know there are teachers out there like all of you who are understanding to the financial aspects of students.

KuteNurse · 05-25-2007, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A'isha Azar

Dear Group,
It is really common for dancers to pay to dance. At festivals, every time you go onto a stage to dance for free, etc. We are doing some pretty terrible things and teaching our students to crave performance enough to do anything to dance. It is OUR OWN FAULT!!!!!!!!!!!!
My dance company rarely dances for free and NEVER pays to dance. It is one of the principles that I try to live by. We do one free event a year, where NO ONE gets paid and the audience is allowed into the event for free. It is a multicultural event put together by the Spokane Folklore Society. We also occasionally do a charity event.
If I get paid, so does everyone else on the stage. When I do student nights, I do not charge the dancers, only the audience.
A couple of years ago one of the people who is bringing biggies in from Egypt sent me a form letter asking me if I would dance in the evening show. My "payment: was to be that I got to see the rest of the show for free. No thanks.
If we do not respect eaqch other enough to pay each performer on our stages, how can we expect anyone else to pay us? Yes, it means I majke less profit, but I also have let each dancer know that I appreciate her/his contributions to the success of the production. Without them, I have no show!!!
I may dance alot less because of this precedent, but I also get paid when I dance, as I and every other dancer on stage should be!!!
Regards,
A'isha

Thankyou A'isha for your positive input and for helping me understand that this wonderful dance is not all about money. I feel better knowing that not everyone capitalizes from others on this dance. It also shows me that you as teachers are in it because it is where your heart is and not because of the income it brings you. I have great respect for all of you for all you teach us and the time you put into teaching us. You do deserve to be well paid for all you do, however, I am guessing the biggest prize is knowing you are the one who taught the students and you should be very proud of what you do!

Aniseteph · 05-25-2007, 05:04 PM

Charging dancers to perform in a show where she is collecting the profits -

!!! UK members familiar with Nan off the Catherine Tate Show insert the catchphrase here...

As A'isha says, without these dancers (and all their friends and family who are buying the tickets) there would be no show, and no profit for her. I can understand student dancers in small student shows not being paid, but there is a fine line between teachers giving students an opportunity to perform, or buy CD's and DVDs and hipscarves, and totally exploiting them.

As for making beginners perform in class to be judged by the teacher - how can anyone learn something like bellydance in that atmosphere? Those DVD moves sound complicated for total beginners, and if anyone had expected me to perform those to the class as a newbie I'd have got stressed out and left.

Actually if I'd been coerced into buying it and then been stressed out in front of the class I might have told her where she could put her DVD...

Change teachers and DANCE!

Recnadocir · 05-25-2007, 07:00 PM

I've heard of paying 5 or 10 bucks to perform in a hafla, which might be considered more of a communal effort to defray the costs. $150 is outrageous, and considering she is charging the audience, for sure she is profiteering.

I pay my dancers $20-25/hour, no matter what. I'll be the last one to make any money from Hollywood Ballet. But I'm taking it on the chin so I can keep getting good dancers, which enhances my choreography.

janaki · 05-26-2007, 01:54 AM

Tks A'isha you put it right!!!

It is not about money all the time!!! The last event I organised I copped $3000HK losses. But the promotion and recognition I and belly dancing got it from that event, I can't get it from advertise in the papers and magazines or in any form. On top of it, I would be paying double or triple the amount.

It is give and take. Students come and support the school week after week month after month. WITHOUT THE STUDENTS THERE IS NO DANCING SCHOOL!!!! You got go and do your solo act!!!

There is always good and bad in everything. But many of my friends and people I meet in the forums, I know they are doing this for the love and passion of it!!!! GRATIFICATION, PLEASURE AND SATISFACTION CAN'T BE MEASURED BY DOLLARS. This is how I feel about this dance!!!!

Cheers
Janaki

Q-Tip · 05-26-2007, 03:43 PM

I would advise filing a complaint with the local Chamber of Commerce and possibly the Better Business Bureau.

It may not change her behavior but it just might get her attention.

If I'm paying you to take classes and I'm paying for my own costume then there's no way I'm paying you to allow me to perform. That's nuts.

da Sage · 05-26-2007, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Q-Tip

I would advise filing a complaint with the local Chamber of Commerce and possibly the Better Business Bureau.

It may not change her behavior but it just might get her attention.

She's not out-and-out defrauding anyone, she's just charging unreasonable prices, for things she shouldn't be charging for at all. I'm not sure that such complaints will do anything.

The only thing that will get through to this woman is if everyone refuses to pay her fees. Why not organize a friendly student dance night where you can perform for each other? You don't have to invite Satanteacher

if you don't want to.

KuteNurse · 05-26-2007, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by da Sage

She's not out-and-out defrauding anyone, she's just charging unreasonable prices, for things she shouldn't be charging for at all. I'm not sure that such complaints will do anything.

The only thing that will get through to this woman is if everyone refuses to pay her fees. Why not organize a friendly student dance night where you can perform for each other? You don't have to invite Satanteacher

if you don't want to.

That is a great idea daSage! I am hoping word will get around about her behavior also...It is really a shame that you really want to take dance classes and you get sucked in paying for things you really shouldnt have to pay for.

05-25-2007, 02:33 PM	#11 (permalink)
Aisha Azar V.I.P. Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Pacific Northwest USA Posts: 4,459	Paying to dance Dear Group, It is really common for dancers to pay to dance. At festivals, every time you go onto a stage to dance for free, etc. We are doing some pretty terrible things and teaching our students to crave performance enough to do anything to dance. It is OUR OWN FAULT!!!!!!!!!!!! My dance company rarely dances for free and NEVER pays to dance. It is one of the principles that I try to live by. We do one free event a year, where NO ONE gets paid and the audience is allowed into the event for free. It is a multicultural event put together by the Spokane Folklore Society. We also occasionally do a charity event. If I get paid, so does everyone else on the stage. When I do student nights, I do not charge the dancers, only the audience. A couple of years ago one of the people who is bringing biggies in from Egypt sent me a form letter asking me if I would dance in the evening show. My "payment: was to be that I got to see the rest of the show for free. No thanks. If we do not respect eaqch other enough to pay each performer on our stages, how can we expect anyone else to pay us? Yes, it means I majke less profit, but I also have let each dancer know that I appreciate her/his contributions to the success of the production. Without them, I have no show!!! I may dance alot less because of this precedent, but I also get paid when I dance, as I and every other dancer on stage should be!!! Regards, A'isha

05-25-2007, 07:00 PM	#16 (permalink)
Recnadocir Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: La La Land Posts: 466	I've heard of paying 5 or 10 bucks to perform in a hafla, which might be considered more of a communal effort to defray the costs. $150 is outrageous, and considering she is charging the audience, for sure she is profiteering. I pay my dancers $20-25/hour, no matter what. I'll be the last one to make any money from Hollywood Ballet. But I'm taking it on the chin so I can keep getting good dancers, which enhances my choreography. __________________ http://a537.ac-images.myspacecdn.com...0267e2f1c0.jpg *Nos es in Hollywood , quod vos es non!*

05-25-2007, 05:04 PM	#15 (permalink)
Aniseteph V.I.P. Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sussex, England Posts: 1,687	Charging dancers to perform in a show where she is collecting the profits - !!! UK members familiar with Nan off the Catherine Tate Show insert the catchphrase here... As A'isha says, without these dancers (and all their friends and family who are buying the tickets) there would be no show, and no profit for her. I can understand student dancers in small student shows not being paid, but there is a fine line between teachers giving students an opportunity to perform, or buy CD's and DVDs and hipscarves, and totally exploiting them. As for making beginners perform in class to be judged by the teacher - how can anyone learn something like bellydance in that atmosphere? Those DVD moves sound complicated for total beginners, and if anyone had expected me to perform those to the class as a newbie I'd have got stressed out and left. Actually if I'd been coerced into buying it and then been stressed out in front of the class I might have told her where she could put her DVD... Change teachers and DANCE!

05-26-2007, 01:54 AM	#17 (permalink)
janaki V.I.P. Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: hong kong Posts: 1,211	Tks A'isha you put it right!!! It is not about money all the time!!! The last event I organised I copped $3000HK losses. But the promotion and recognition I and belly dancing got it from that event, I can't get it from advertise in the papers and magazines or in any form. On top of it, I would be paying double or triple the amount. It is give and take. Students come and support the school week after week month after month. WITHOUT THE STUDENTS THERE IS NO DANCING SCHOOL!!!! You got go and do your solo act!!! There is always good and bad in everything. But many of my friends and people I meet in the forums, I know they are doing this for the love and passion of it!!!! GRATIFICATION, PLEASURE AND SATISFACTION CAN'T BE MEASURED BY DOLLARS. This is how I feel about this dance!!!! Cheers Janaki

05-26-2007, 03:43 PM	#18 (permalink)
Q-Tip Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Indiana Posts: 220	I would advise filing a complaint with the local Chamber of Commerce and possibly the Better Business Bureau. It may not change her behavior but it just might get her attention. If I'm paying you to take classes and I'm paying for my own costume then there's no way I'm paying you to allow me to perform. That's nuts.