shiradotnet

If I had been put in that situation, I too would have felt bad, and for the same reasons. It's easier if you have, say, 15 entrants, all stunningly beautiful, because then those who didn't win a prize can look at the other 11 and say, "Well those are beautiful too, and they didn't win either, so now I don't feel so bad." But to have only one who doesn't win anything, well, that's really sad.

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karena

The stuff that people have been describing is so alien to my experiences. Is it that it is different in the UK, or is it I just haven't seen enough, or is it the culture is different in the USA (which I think could then come back to Liz's point about places where competition is more common, maybe in everyday life. If competition is endemic, then is this approach taken into other arenas without even thinking about it?)?

Eshta

It could also be to do with the fact that the scene here is really fragmented, and I don't think there would be many (any?) generally accepted 'experts' who could be considered objective judges, nor an event sponsor with the gravitas.' It's been tried a few times but none of them have really taken hold.

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da Sage

Personally, I know a few dancers IRL who have competed in "real" (dancer-run) competitions, out of town. None of them are from the central metro area, but the ones I know either were pros at the time, or became pros shortly thereafter.

I think competitions can be a great way to get analysis of your dance, and see what other dancers of your training level are doing. It shouldn't replace lessons, but I think it can be a good incentive and useful in focusing your training.

The dance competition I mentioned earlier is not run by dancers, it's run by the Ren Faire, which is why most dancers consider it beneath their notice. And there are no other local dance competitions for some reason, not sure why.

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shiradotnet

Hmmm, there's no doubt that in the US people grow up with a certain awareness of competitions that people can enter. Children take annual standardized exams that cover academic subjects such as reading and mathematics skills, and get results that let them know their percentile; ie, how they compare to everyone else who takes that exam.

Children take lessons in ice skating, gymnastics, baton-twirling, and other activities, and many of these have competition programs available for those who wish to enter.

Children also often play in team sports leagues, such as soccer or baseball, and those leagues often become involved in tournaments.

And then there are all the children's beauty pageants, for even very young girls.

At the academic level, there are essay contests (I entered many over the years), spelling bees, and contests sponsored by school clubs such as Future Business Leaders of America (I won the spelling category for my state and placed third in typing, and went on to nationals). There's 4-H clubs where you display your projects or deliver your presentations at the county fair with the goal of being chosen to go on to regional and state fairs. Schools sponsor plays and musicals, and kids audition (compete) for roles. School bands have people audition (compete) to determine who will be first chair, second chair, etc. in each instrument, and there are also regional band contests, choir contests, and speech contests. If you win, you're offered the opportunity to go on to state level.

So we have quite a lot of opportunities to compete in stuff as children, long before we reach the age of 18. Some of these (the school standardized testing) are mandatory, but most of them are optional. So it's up to parents to decide how many of these competitive environments to expose their children to, and how to manage their children's experience through successes and failures.

All in all, as I reflect on it, kids in the US are surrounded by competitions while growing up. Their parents might not enter them in the competitions, but they see their friends doing it, and accept it as something a lot of people do.

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karena

Thanks Shira. Interesting. I think here we do have competitions but maybe there is still a more 'British' approach to them. So we do now have school tests (controversial and some are being phased out), auditions for things eg plays, cake competitions at fairs and such like. But also not eg school orchestra I didn't compete to be 1st clarinet, the conductor decided, and I don't think there's a competition hierarchy (ie if you win one you go the the next level) But, thinking about the competitions there are for the best dissertation etc at uni, they become more like an award for doing it, rather than you are competing from the outset. If at uni a student said they were going to compete for that dissertation prize, and that was their goal, it would seem very very odd. Not the social norm. It's more case of graciously accepting the unexpected prize.

Also thinking of films, I can imagine having the odd one about a twee British country show cake competition going awry, but not as a celebration of competition, whereas I feel like I can imagine films from the USA normalising competition more.

Maybe that is why in the UK we have haflas which are a bit like end of year school shows (sometimes, not always) and you have competitions?

shiradotnet

Well, we have lots of haflas and festivals, too. Lots more of those than competitions, in fact!

Many people here in the U.S. feel the same opposition toward contests as that expressed by some people on this thread. Although we may have more competitions than some other countries, they're still a very small part of the overall belly dance event landscape. It's okay - for those who want to test themselves, we have competitions, and for everyone else we have a large selection of other types of events.

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lizaj

Certification & Contests: | Belly Dance News & Events

Now what do you reckon to Miles' take on competition? And his other comment if you like. It's a bit of a ramble

shiradotnet

I think he made a number of excellent points. Anybody with ambitions for joining the BDSS or becoming an IAMED instructor or aligning with some other high-profile impresario would do well to read Miles' piece carefully and think about what he's saying.

As for his contention that a contest win means merely that you were the best of a bunch of amateurs, I see his point, but I think it could have been worded better. I think a lot of the dancers who do gigs for restaurants, nightclubs, weddings, and birthday parties would be considered "amateurs" by BDSS standards despite the fact that they're doing paid gigs, and rightly so. I think we've all seen restaurant dancers who look great in their costumes but don't have much dance skill. Some of them may be promising, but not up to BDSS standards - yet. However, over the years I've also known some dancers who were high-quality working pros who have entered and won contests - dancers who probably could have been BDSS candidates if the organization had existed then.

I do, however, agree with his position that a contest win is one of many tools an ambitious, up-and-coming dancer can use to get seen, attract attention, and take her dance career to a higher-profile level. It's not the only tool, and by itself it won't mean much, and it's possible for a dancer to become famous and sought-after without ever entering a contest.

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Ghijsie

Oh don't worry, I'm still around. Thought I'd let things perculate a bit and then see what comes floating to the surface. I find it all VERY VERY interesting