Appearance is Important

[Amanda (was Aziyade)]

Rita Hayworth = my standard of beauty. JUST love her! sigh...

 

[Creaky Old Dancer]

Hi, reading this post has made me think, appearance is important as long as it means well put together, neat, comfortable,and as mentioned before classy. To me it also means not a cookie cutter look, troupe costumes (and brides maids dresses) are sometimes the saddest looking things. To my mind it effects the performances you can see when the dancers aren't happy about costumes. The fit and colors ect should be person appropriate which is different than size or age approriate. Okay got my two cents in - Creaks

 

[LadyLoba]

Rita Hayworth was beautiful.

My Grandmother was a Rita Hayworth look-alike when she was young...I mistook her wedding photo for a fan photo and just couldn't remember her name.

One day I walked into the kitchen and said, "What's the name of that movie star in the photo with grandpa?" and my dad said, "That's not a movie star, that's your Grandmother. That's his wedding photo."

 

[jahbie]

BellaBohemian said


<<I would just like to mention, this is the last time I will reply to you on this subject.

You're reading way too much into a random example let alone anything else I have stated. You are over-reacting and even trying to insinuate there is more to my views then there actually is. >>

Fine by me, because we don't understand each other. We all read posts differently, I suppose it's because there is no spoken tone to help us. To me, there is a difference between opinions and assertions , and that is what I was trying to address. I thought that I'd asked my questions quite openly and I don't know why that seems like insinuation to you, I haven't implied anything at all .

 

[Greek Bonfire]

Rita Hayworth! Her beauty is timeless. I also think Elizabeth Taylor when she was in "Giant" was so beautiful that it hurt to look at her.

As far as morning people go, ugh! Although I have to get up early because of my job, I don't talk to anyone until about 10:00!

 

[Cyriine]

4. Youth club crowd: Be under thirty with an athletic body style. Base your costumes on popular trend of the day: Anime, S&M, Steampunk, Furry, SciFi, Vampire, etc. Include bizarre unnatural looking hair. Dance to techno or other popular music while doing excessive isolations, locks & pops, stomach work. Strive for cutting edge props which likely have nothing to do with the Middle East. Look like a rave girl about to bite someone and your fame is assured.

You've been to my area. For realz.

Also, to me the most beautiful thing about watching a performance isn't the body or hair or whatever, it's the facial expression. If someone looks miserable and just going through the motions then yeah it's not that fun to watch. But if someone is dancing with a smile on their face or in their eyes then it becomes more fun and enjoyable, for me anyway.

 

[Aniseteph]

..there's furry belly dance????!!! :shok: :shok: :shok: (no YouTube evidence please...)

LOL at the list Jane (and can't rep you).

 

[Jane]

It's the tails that disturb

 

[Belly Love]

Okay, I just got back from a bad date (and a few cocktails) and felt the need to come here while I stuff my face with pizza and Oreos! TMI?!

Welcome back LadyLoba!!!!! Wooohooo!! And I don't just like you because you often have my back, but because you are a fair and just person :clap:
The story about your Grandmother was cute- mine was a hottie back in the day as well. As a matter of fact, so was my grandfather... so were both my parents. I have this theory that two beautiful people usually don't produce attractive children and since both of my parents were "beautiful people" I don't know where that leaves me :shok:. Now that I think about it, I did look like a monkey when I was a baby .

Anyway, why do people always make me feel bad for not getting up early? I see I'm not the only one who does this... why does anyone care? If I'm up until 4am, obviously I need to sleep until noon. It's torture for me to get up early. I do my best work in the middle of the night- I heard this is very common with creative people which could very well be true seeing as many of you are like this as well. Although, it can be depressing in the winter when I see very little daylight...

I forgot who mentioned Elizabeth Taylor from back in the day, but yes, she was a hottie!

 

[Shanazel]

Just for the Night Owl record: it is 4:57 a.m., I just finished a good eight hour shift of writing proposals, and I am going to bed. Let the Morning Larks try that schedule and survive.

Sophia Loren made them all look like school girls.

 

[Belly Love]

So, if we have a friend who wears a super short pink mini skirt with ruffles that she got from GAP Kids, we should say "Hey, that looks great on you!" even though you can see her 52 yr old butt cheeks pop out every two steps?

Hey, if she feels beautiful and is happy... who cares if she looks like a street prostitute?! Why would you say anything? Who cares about what's age appropriate! Who cares about that stuff!

I think dressing "age appropriate" is usually important no matter what one is dressing for.

There is a difference between someone who dresses outdated and/or age inappropriate and knows it but truely doesn't care vs. someone who doesn't know much about fashion and claims they don't care about "that stuff" (even though they really do) simply because they are insecure about their looks/clothing. I completely respect and am all for the former. Usually I come across the latter... and it's so obvious.

 

[gisela]

So, if we have a friend who wears a super short pink mini skirt with ruffles that she got from GAP Kids, we should say "Hey, that looks great on you!" even though you can see her 52 yr old butt cheeks pop out every two steps?

Well... yeah. If she is happy with her new skirt, then who are you to tell her that it is not appropriate? If she is a friend and her buttcheeks truly are showing (no matter if they are 17 y o or 52) you could suggest that she wear leggings underneath, or something like that, but IMO what other people wear is none of our business.

Hey, if she feels beautiful and is happy... who cares if she looks like a street prostitute?! Why would you say anything? Who cares about what's age appropriate! Who cares about that stuff!

yes exactly, just without the eye rolling

 

[Belly Love]

Well... yeah. If she is happy with her new skirt, then who are you to tell her that it is not appropriate? If she is a friend and her buttcheeks truly are showing (no matter if they are 17 y o or 52) you could suggest that she wear leggings underneath, or something like that, but IMO what other people wear is none of our business.

yes exactly, just without the eye rolling

So you would suggest editing the outfit? Then you do actually care what other people wear. Oh, so we agree then.

I wonder how it is, that the longest thread on this site is, for the most part, dedicated to making fun of bd outfits that many of the members think look awful, yet the same members claim that they don't care about whats considered appropriate for fashion and don't have an opinion on what other people wear. Apparently Belly Dance clothing is an exception? It's okay to make fun of others for their handmade outfits, that they are clearly proud of, but not okay to tell a friend, when asked, that you don't like something she's wearing. Interesting.

 

[gisela]

So you would suggest editing the outfit? Then you do actually care what other people wear. Oh, so we agree then.

No not me, I said that you could suggest leggings. I would be completely fine with it.

Another option for you could be to say, hey your buttcheeks are showing, and then it is totally up to the person in question to choose if she wants to show her buttcheeks or not.

But really, how often do you see buttcheeks out and about?

 

[Ariadne]

""This sociological term has been defined as "the rules that a group uses for appropriate and inappropriate values, beliefs, attitudes and behaviors. These rules may be explicit or implicit. Failure to follow the rules can result in severe punishments, including exclusion from the group." They have also been described as the "customary rules of behavior that coordinate our interactions with others."

The social norms indicate the established and approved ways of doing things, of dress, of speech and of appearance. These vary and evolve not only through time but also vary from one age group to another and between social classes and social groups. What is deemed to be acceptable dress, speech or behavior in one social group may not be accepted in another.
~Wikipedia

This is true.

That is where these "standards" come from. And yes they do apply TO EVERYONE. Reguardless of if you support the norms within your (or even as a whole, our) society they still effect you and apply to you because the mass majority around you does believe in these standards.

This is not true because...

I look at magazines of "beautiful women" and I find that I believe beauty is something different then what I see. But does that stop the masses around me from compairing me to that magazine beauty?

... the masses couldn't care less.

The vast majority of people I have met in my life recognize that the media have created a false standard and have rejected it. The true standards that are used are levels of modestly (variable depending on the class/group) and perceivable intent or intended impression (also variable). "Brands" are only followed in that they assist in the later and in finding clothes that fit well depending on your body type and/or budget.

By becoming a bellydancer you have entered into a new social class/group with it's own standards. For those who perform professionally the audience expectations have to be taken into account but those also vary depending on their "class" and even more so their society/culture in the US and the world. General bellydance society tends to have a very different standard however then the "high society/mass media" since it is based in a "middle-eastern" and/or "pro-feminine" society. The first places a higher value on maturity and the second on independence from imposed values on physical appearance. As a result bellydancers recognize many kinds of beauty and also recognize that the general public will watch dancers that do not fit the media standard, and enjoy themselves, as long as the dancers meet a level of grooming and carriage that reflects well professionally. You will find far more complaints in this society about a dancer not dressing appropriately for the gig or not taking the time to fix up their hair and makeup then you will about their size or shape. The later simply does not reflect their professionalism and when it comes to presenting this art to the public that is what is really important.

 

[Aniseteph]

So you would suggest editing the outfit? Then you do actually care what other people wear. Oh, so we agree then.

I don't care what my friend wants to wear; I care about her feelings getting hurt by people being nasty. If she knows it is age-inappropriate or unflattering and is likely to get comments and doesn't give a rats behind, fine - up to her.

 

[LadyLoba]

Once again I agree with Belly Love...

....and if I wore something that made me look silly for whatever reason, I'd want my friend to very very nicely tell me.

I try to make sure I don't look like that by dressing in a very simple, classic style...but as long as they were being sincere, and being kind about it I'd appreciate it.

There is a HUGE difference between being rude or controlling....trying to give people unasked for makeovers, or telling them something looks bad out of jealousy...and honestly and kindly pointing out that one or two items doesn't look so good. I just walked around the mall about a week ago carrying a tote bag that looked absolutely foolish....it was a "day bag" but once I got to looking at it, I realized that it's an adult school bag...for books and binders and such...it's not a purse. Luckily, I was purse shopping that day...but I wish someone had told me how stupid I looked before I carried it around ...stupid...and with it being such an obviously deep bag with so many pockets, I think a few clerks thought I was shoplifting too.

I also wish someone had told me just how bad I look in powder blue.

The way you do it, of course, depends on the person and the situation. I used to know a young woman who took to ringing her eyes in these bright shades that looked really bad on her. She has beautiful big gray blue eyes, but you'd never notice them because she had all these bright purples and teals and blues all around them all the time...I didn't say anything because this girl was always hypersensitive about being attractive and she wouldn't listen to advice that came from me anyway...but one day she did a look that involved brown tones that really looked good and brought out her eyes...so I just told her "Susie (not her real name) you should wear that makeup more often. You look gorgeous like that. It really brings out your eyes."

I haven't seen her in a while, so I don't know what she's doing now, but last time I saw her she had taken to wearing more flattering colors.

Belly Love, I also agree with you and noticed that about the belly dance costume thread....that some of the same people who jump all over you when you mention liking fashion or noticing appearance in general have no problem criticizing belly dance costumes with much more vehemence than you've ever spoken about an outfit or a look.

 

[gisela]

I am quite sure that some of the things I like to wear and feel fabulous in, someone else thinks look silly. I would prefer that other people mind their own business and let me wear whatever I like. And LadyLoba, really, a bag? I don't see the catastrophy in that. I am sure you looked perfectly fine.

 

[LadyLoba]

Oh, trust me...I looked silly....and up to no good.

Anyone can certainly wear whatever they like....and if someone says something and a person doesn't want to hear it...they certainly have the right to say "I like this look and I'm keeping it." Or to tell someone you don't want their advice if you think they're being a jerk about it or if well...you just don't want their input on your looks.

I just don't think Belly Love has said anything wrong in any of these posts, and as I've noted before...I admire her both for her willingness to be honest even when it's not the popular belief or viewpoint to have, and her willingness to stand up for herself. It's something I don't do often enough. I'm too worried one or two people won't like me.

 

[Shanazel]

I wonder how it is, that the longest thread on this site is, for the most part, dedicated to making fun of bd outfits that many of the members think look awful, yet the same members claim that they don't care about whats considered appropriate for fashion and don't have an opinion on what other people wear.

Re: the TPBDC thread: critisizing or praising costume construction and design is a far cry from telling our friends and family members that they look like hell in an outfit that obviously pleases them. Age appropriate behavior and dress is something parents and public schools foist on children until they are old enough to escape us. Once a person reaches adulthood, the foisting becomes condescending at best and rude at worst.

In one of her many brilliant bursts of insight, dear Miss Manners wrote, "You may call this hypocrisy. As a matter of fact, Miss Manners calls it hypocrisy, too. The difference is you probably don't consider hypocrisy one of the social graces and she does."