Reen.Blom

LOL Shanazel, this is HILARIOUS! This quite a way to put it!

Sara

Aye I know. It's what I finalled in , I couldn't be bothered explaining it though . Jet lag is throwing me off

It was Gothic architecture and art which was partly to blame for the heretical movements such as the Bogomils and Catharism as it promoted the churches wealth more than it should of done and was so lavish anti-clericalism began to grow. Even Cistercians who were supposed to be very Romanesque in their architecture went Gothic like old Fountains Abbey. The Church who had previously promoted viva apostalica were deviating from it. Which is why heretical groups and new orders were popular. The church wanted to demonstrate it's power more than anything else and in building such impressive buildings they hoped to enforce this. Especially due to secular and religious problems developing through Europe. Romaneque style was too plain and simple.

We got told what people in later centuries were inspired by the art (and later industrialisation) but that was in my art class. We had to do a project on how 'Buildings influence our society'. Sadly I got landed with industrial buildings Teacher said what I could relate more cause I live opposite a bunch of factories.

The connection is people's imagination and influences. When I see Gibsons Mill ( A deserted old disused mill from hundreds of years ago in the middle of a wood in a valley all alone) my imagination leaps to all kinds of things which could have happened there, and ghost stories and things. The buildings themselves don't connect, but if you say look at that book Hunchback of Notre Dame. That building is Gothic Architecture. Why did the author choose that building? Why did G P Taylor chose Whitby Abbey (the most well known gothic abbey in Yorkshire) over Kirkstall or St Mary's? It's most likely cause of the atmosphere the art and design of them create. Why did Bram stoker chose Whitby? Why not Filey?

That's how I see the connection anyhow The goths you are talking about sound very ... well, I dunno... lol. I don't reckon I've seen one. I'm thinking of the more traditional goths that we have here.

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Reen.Blom

In the book Notre Dame the building itself is not looked at as something horrible, on the other hand, it is represented as something Grand as a symbol of the century, as a SHELTER for any outcast(that's where Esmeralda tried to find her shelter) even shelter for any criminal. As for gargoils- well at the time when the style emerged there were still alot of pagan influences in Christianity and the builders would include those scary figures to "fight off" evil spirits, often posessing a lot of sense of humour would reperesent their friends or famous ppl of the time as a gargoile- well the way modern cartoonist do .

Another thing that by the end of 19th century those building were made part of the legend (that victorian fascination with ghost stories and stuff), but by THAT time Gothic style in arcitecture was a history.(even had a second birth as neo-Gothic as I mentioned before)

Sara

What is a neo goth?

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Kharmine

A goth with a dim neon sign?

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What if the hokey pokey is really what it's all about?

mauraz

Goth belly dance seems very turned-in-on-itself. I probably would have loved it in my teens and early 20s. In my mid-50's, I don't need to go looking for trouble -- it finds me. And the technique of some of the most popular dancers seems unevenly developed, as though a lot more energy was going into the acting side than the dance side. All a matter of taste, I suppose.

Sara

I agree with yas there. Some of the most popular dancers aren't very techincally upped as it were.

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TribalDancer

I completely agree with this. And it is not just in gothic dancing, so let's not just point the finger there. In general, we (my troupe) has noted a move toward greater theatricality, and we have definitely discussed here that there is a lot of schtick being used to mask bad dancing. Theatricality is serving the same purpose. If they have an outrageous enough costume, some kind of mystical storytelling, and a few circus tricks, they feel they are "innovating". *shaking head*

What happened to DANCING WELL?!

I am all for adding some of these elements...once the technique is tight, and NOT before.

Reen.Blom

I agree sometimes dancers just want to shock audience with costumes etc, but can it replace grace and the feeling of music and technique???

Damariz

I'm just a newbie (about a year and a 1/2) to bellydance but I'll post my opinion anyways. In no way am I saying that this type of bellydance is raqs sharki; I'm arguing that it has potential to be a form of bellydance. Also, I am not Goth but I know well enough that it is not in any wayabout Marylin Manson, Hot Topic, and wearing only black.

From the gothic performances I have seen (both live and on youtube), I think that the majority of dancers have only a vague clue of what they are doing. Just like thetribaldancer said, it seems like there are many dancers who put an emphasis on drama and shock instead of in technique and musicality. Just throw in some snakey arms, anghsty expressions and voila! However, it is my belief that the people doing this are beginners/intermediates with merely a few years of experience. Perhaps the two performers posted earlier in the thread (dominatix and cannibal?) fall under this level.

Yet I feel that we cannot judge this experimental branch solely on beginners. There are performers who can beautifully fuse oriental or tribal technique and the gothic subculture. One example is Ariellah (shown here YouTube - Gothla - Ariellah)
who not only has a jaw-dropping technique but also uses many bellydance movements (and middle eastern inspired music. Yay!). Her performances are not the usual amalgamations of hip-hop, african, thai, jazz, indian, and two ()bellydance movements that are still labeled bellydance. Another wonderful performer is Taletha, who uses cabaret as her base for her Gothic bellydance. Also look up Asharah and Jeniviva for good performances.

In the short while that Gothic Bellydance has existed, it is no wonder that there are few successful examples of this style. However, once it has time to grow, I believe that there will enough dancers who will make justice to both bellydance and the Gothic lifestyle.

Just my two cents.