Mosaic

This is so common in Indonesia, The young choosing the veil/abaya, (especially the university educated, though it is becoming more common amongst the upper middle class young women), whereas their mothers/grandmothers don't wear any veiling except of course when they go to the mosque.

I understand what you are saying Tribaldancer in regards to be forced/ordered to wear hijab etc. I hate the fact that Australia has a law that says I HAVE to go out and vote if I don't I get fined. I don't mind registering as is also required by law, but resent being ordered to go and vote in local and national elections, even if there isn't one single person I am willing to vote for. So much for democracy and free choice! Mind you that law is for everyone not just women. So here we have this compulsory voting law but young women are allowed to wear hijab to school/uni/work, thank goodness the law embraces the differences in cultures and religions. Schools accommodate with the school uniform girls who wish to wear hijab. The same goes for boys/men of the sikh religion, they are allowed to wear their turbans and Jewish boys the skull cap. I know various countries have said no to religious attire and I believe that is very unfair, and discriminatory.

~Mosaic

da Sage

Today at the store, I was helped by a young woman in a niqab. I could tell even in our brief exchange that 1)she is an independent woman who does exactly what she chooses and, 2) she has no interest in "conforming" to anything (niqab is not the usual style around here).

Caroline_afifi

In the Uk we had a situation 2 years back were a teacher wanted to wear Niqab. She refused to remove it and was suspended from her post.
She took it to the high court who ruled she could not wear it. It sparked a huge debate.
What I noticed was this (in Liverpool of course) Forward thinking English people were outraged that she should not be allowed to wear it, other English people said 'they can go to their own country if they want to wear it' some Musims backed the campaign but a huge number did not. Many Muslims associated to my working organisations felt it was not nessesary as it was not a requirement of Islam to cover your face. Hijab is allowed.
Many said, children learn from facial interactions and if they were needing to lip read etc. it maybe be a problem etc.
The high courts would not have decided this without a huge amount of consulation with Muslim authorities as they are terrified of appearing Isamophobic as it is. They call various organisations around the country on a daily basis seeking advice, including Tony Blairs office (unless it is to do with war, they dont listen to anyone!)

lizaj

Many women wore hats out of doors or at worst head scarves when I was a child. Some even wore face veils with a dressy hat and in mourning. Always to church. We all wore school hats..no I am only 61 but the Victorian era lasted a long time.
I have seen more local women with a face veil as well as hijab.
I am not sure why women should ever feel that is necessary or a good idea. In place of work you need facial communication and especially working with children. A woman can be modest and show her face, surely?
The headscarf or a hat is always a good idea in the heat and I saw very few women in Luxor( actually 1 I think) wearing the Niqab...and I went over on the West bank not stayed just in the city.
Thank God, you saw a lot of smiling faces...who wants to hide a smile..a whole face smile?
But it's freedom to chose I suppose.As long as it isn't an imposition.
But I do understand the struggle in Turkey....after all Ataturk sought to give women a measure of freedom by dispensing with the veil.

To return to the modesty thing, a young mum wearing a very colourful red , navy and silver Niqab turned to me in M&S in toen and smiled with her lovely dark eyes..bet she could well do the same thing to a man.

Suheir

If something that *isn't* a religious requirement is preventing an employee from carrying out their job satisfactorily then it's logical to rule against the employee. My school teachers covered their heads and it didn't prevent them from doing their jobs.

lizaj

Might I also suspect that women "over there" like to stay pale? One reason to wear a veil.
Ironic all those ads on Egyptian/Dubai TV..you see Westerners getting BBQ'd below by the pool and watch the ads for whitening the skin of "Orientals"!

Samira bint Aya

Lizaj,
I don’t necessarily think Ataturk placed a ban on the veil with the intent to liberate women. He banned the fez too. I think he wanted to disengage religion from politics, and westernize his country.

Having said that, I am totally TOTALLY against banning the veil from universities. I think it marginalizes a large percentage of the population, it places uncomfortable choices on young women, and frankly I find it condescending and elitist.

On my last trip to Egypt, I decided I would cover up outside the hotel, especially when visiting Arab neighborhoods (as opposed to tourist areas). I don’t particularly like it, but it is not a big deal, and I figured it is an easy way to show my respect for the culture.

I found that women came up to me and chatted a lot more, and often paid me compliments. I’ve heard that you get better bargains at the shops, when you are covered, but I really have no idea…

__________________
Each dancing step brings a fresh breeze سميرة

TribalDancer

Yes, I think I was misunderstood.

I was quoting a couple posts where people said it would be offensive if suddenly someone were to tell these women they COULDN'T wear their chosen attire. And I was saying that the point wasn't being told they *couldn't*, or that they *had to*, but that ideally they would be able to choose for themselves.

I do understand that some women choose this for themselves, and I respect that. I was speaking to the idea that someone would be forced to or forced not to, and that I felt that the perfect situation is for people to choose without someone else's intervention (for whatever reason, political, religious, social, or otherwise).

Does anyone here watch Little Mosque on the Prairie? I love the character of Rayyan, who is an Islamic feminist and wears a form of hijab (you can see more about the show here, and see what she wears: Little Mosque on the Prairie - Canadian, Eh? ) I think this show is a lot of fun, and her character fascinates me, as as I want to better understand what a modern Muslim woman can be like in many of its forms, Rayyan being one of them, however fictional.

lizaj

yes it was to get rid of the old religious trappings but many took it also as a sign that women should be considered more equal in society..at least that's what some Turks have told me. I am sure the reality is much different.
France also has tried to keep to its' ideal of religion and the state separate which is why they have had run ins with headscarves perhaps more so than we have. But then BA stops folks from wearing crosses with their uniform!

Caroline_afifi

lol... are you talking about 'Fair and Lovely'?