Amazing video about women in Saudi Arabia - Page 7

KuteNurse · 02-05-2008, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A'isha Azar

Dear Gagn,
I am trying to think of a few of the things I have heard about beheadings from Saudis. It seems like a lot of beheadings are not even of Saudi nationals, but of people who have tried to sneak drugs or alcohol into the country, mostly people not from First World countries, but Pakistanis and others who work there and are from poor countries. In the airport, people are warned about it, even.
My best friend is Saudi as many of you already know and she says that there is a family in Saudi Arabia who has many family members that end up getting beheaded because they are always in trouble. The family is even kind of famous, (or perhaps infamous) for it. I wish I could remember the name!
The law reads that single people are not beheaded for having sex outside marriage, but married people can be beheaded. Single people are publicly beaten. Of course, this does not mean that a girl's father or brother might not kill her for it, but then again, she might just live,too. And there is the question of whether the King's favorite niece was beheaded or if some poor innocent woman was beheaded in her place. I am referring to the documentary" Death of a Princess", in which King Fahd's favorite niece had an affair and was caught, even though she was not married, and supposedly beheaded. There are reasons to doubt she was.
Many times political crimes are punished with beheadings, and any crime against the religion.
That's about it off the top of my head. I will try to look up my master's thesis and see if I can come up with more.
Regards,
A'isha

A'isha,

I have also been following that story briefly. I am not certain if I believe in a death sentence for such offenses, however, running drugs certainly does deserve a severe punishment. Do you happen to know if these people were put to death yet?

I have also heard of the Iranian women who had extra-marital affairs will be stoned! Now that's barbaric!!!

Iranian sisters face stoning for adultery: report

On a lighter note and not to be offensive again...I think I would prefer being this Arab woman getting smacked in the face for not wearing my Abaya in public. This is one more reason to be grateful I live in America.

Iraqi woman beaten by her husband for not covering her face :: Funny Videos, Crazy Videos, Video Clips :: Vidmax.com

Here is another Barbaric story of a woman being prepared to be stoned...Unbelieveable!

Iranian wife faces death by stoning for adultery | the Daily Mail

Aisha Azar · 02-05-2008, 11:21 PM

Dear Kutenurse,
I was not referring to a specific story because I can no longer remember any specific one off the top of my head. I consider beheadings to be barbaric; just as barbaric as the concept of solitary confinement, for example, which, I learned in sociology class often leads to intense mental instability.
Regards,
A'isha

gypsy8522 · 02-06-2008, 01:11 AM

Now, while that video is labled in English " Iraqi woman beaten by her husband for not covering her face", it doesn't seem the arabic dialogue going on in the video had anything to do with the veil. This is one more reason to be grateful I speak other languages besides English!

I could post clips that show physical and sexual abuse on the hands of 'Americans' in Abu Ghraib, torture and breach of human rights in Guantanamo Bay, and footage to the raping of young girls in Iraq. And I could also post articles of hundreds of western females and stories about their abusive relationships. But I doubt those who come to this thread would be interested in any of that. I don't get the 'veil equals beating up woman' logic, a woman could be wearing a short skirt and still get beaten up by her boyfriend or husband. The content of those articles, videos were barbaric , for sure. But does that mean it represents the life of all Arabic women as a certain person was implying more than once in this thread? I saw on Oprah once that 1 in every 4 American women have been victims of domestic violence, and these are just the women who came forward and reported it! YouTube - 1 in 4 Women Victims of Domestic Violence

I tried in my last post to turn this thread around into a less serious topic and to correct some misconceptions, but it seems some people won't let go and insist on sharing information based on their own prejudices and misinformation. Coming to think of it, it's not a bad idea to "live outside America" for a while, try seeing the world through a different lense, in order to see how our reality and the world around us changes. We cannot argue about changing the world, if one does not know the world first.

I agree about the beheading, that it is not in any way "less barbaric" than solitary confinement. Not to mention electrocution, lethal injections, and gas poison, all which are legal methods of execution in the United States. Technically, the beheadings are "merciful" in comparison, at least the person doen't go through suffering and torture before dying.

gypsy8522 · 02-06-2008, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ranya

Beautiful abayas, but just a remark/or question maybe/ without any judging or such - on most of these pics, the hair is clearly visible.

Ranya,

I think you are mixing up between higab and sheila.

The black scarf women in these pictures are wearing is called 'sheila' , it comes together with the abaya, and this is the national costume of Arab women in the gulf. While higab can be made of any material and any color, sheila is black in color and it's made from crepe material.

The higab is a religous symbol and its purpose is to cover the hair, it doesn't belong to a certain country or culture. You can find women all over the world wearing the higab.
If you see women wearing a sheila with their hair sticking out, it means they are wearing it because of their culture and not necessarily observing higab. While these two things (culture and religion) are closely interwined, they are not the same.

It is similar in concept to the dupatta worn by south asian women Dupatta - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia,

Aisha Azar · 02-06-2008, 02:01 AM

Dear Gang,
I have to agree with Gypsy. We are very quick to point fingers at the way other countries handle things, and also often English captions do not match what is going on in photos or often on the news. During the Iran crisis I happened to be watching a news program with Masoud Chamasmani, my Persian dance instructor. The English stated that "students" in Tehran were protesting against American policies toward Iran. Masoud started laughing and when I asked him what was funny he told me. "Look at the people who are protesting. What do you see?" What I saw appeared to be poor older men in very traditional clothing, not at all like anything very remotely student like. Masoud told me that these were farmers from outside the city, probably not very well educated, who were told by the government to protest. It had nothing at all to do with how the students of Iran felt about the American government.
I try not to be any more or less critical of the way that things are handled in other countries than I am here. Not only are one in four women beaten in domestic violence, in my country, 1 in 4 children goes to bed hungry at night.
That makes it really difficult for me to say that any other country is worse than my own. I abhor terrible treatment no matter where it is, and I can see plenty here to complain about, too.
Regards,
A'isha

KuteNurse · 02-06-2008, 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gypsy8522

Now, while that video is labled in English " Iraqi woman beaten by her husband for not covering her face", it doesn't seem the arabic dialogue going on in the video had anything to do with the veil. This is one more reason to be grateful I speak other languages besides English!

I could post clips that show physical and sexual abuse on the hands of 'Americans' in Abu Ghraib, torture and breach of human rights in Guantanamo Bay, and footage to the raping of young girls in Iraq. And I could also post articles of hundreds of western females and stories about their abusive relationships. But I doubt those who come to this thread would be interested in any of that. I don't get the 'veil equals beating up woman' logic, a woman could be wearing a short skirt and still get beaten up by her boyfriend or husband. The content of those articles, videos were barbaric , for sure. But does that mean it represents the life of all Arabic women as a certain person was implying more than once in this thread? I saw on Oprah once that 1 in every 4 American women have been victims of domestic violence, and these are just the women who came forward and reported it! YouTube - 1 in 4 Women Victims of Domestic Violence

I tried in my last post to turn this thread around into a less serious topic and to correct some misconceptions, but it seems some people won't let go and insist on sharing information based on their own prejudices and misinformation. Coming to think of it, it's not a bad idea to "live outside America" for a while, try seeing the world through a different lense, in order to see how our reality and the world around us changes. We cannot argue about changing the world, if one does not know the world first.

I agree about the beheading, that it is not in any way "less barbaric" than solitary confinement. Not to mention electrocution, lethal injections, and gas poison, all which are legal methods of execution in the United States. Technically, the beheadings are "merciful" in comparison, at least the person doen't go through suffering and torture before dying.

Gypsy,

I resent you calling me prejudice and misinformed. You do not know my knowledge level about middle eastern countries. You do not know my knowledge or language or where I have traveled to. You do not know my educational level as a whole. You do not know me well enough to determine that I am a prejudiced person.

In fact, I have no prejudism against Arab women. I have nothing against them personally, it is the laws that govern them that I have issues with.

Does it matter in the video I posted the reason the man was beating his wife? The bottom line is the woman was being beaten. She was guarding herself against his attacks and cowering in fear. I never said abuse does not occur in all areas of our world. My conversation was with A'isha regarding if the men were executed regarding the drug running. I was posting information regarding that topic and other topics of interest to me. I am certain the country you live in has the crimes you posted that the United States has. It is unfortunate that women have to be the victims of domestic abuse. Men also are victims of abuse. (BOTH in all countries.)

I do not have the "Veil and beating up logic" you speak of. Those are YOUR words. My point is that these punishments are way too harsh for women or for men. While I do not agree with having marital affairs and I believe it is immoral to do so, I certainly do not agree with the punishment of burying a woman in the ground so that she can get stones thrown at her until her death. How long do you imagine it would take for her to die in this situation? I am apalled at the punishment for women in Iran. (Or in other countries that would allow such a thing.)

The solitary confinement you speak of in the United States is only done when someone is considered harmful to others or to oneself. Solitary confinement in a war situation is an entirely different topic. Perhaps the studies show it can be traumatic for the individual after the event, however, is it any better to let release that person into a situation they are harmful to others?

I believe we are talking about 2 different circumstances here: 1. A woman who has extramarital affairs is being murdered. 2. Serial killers or killers who have killed one to numerous amounts of innocent people.

Capital punishment in the United States only occurs in certain states. Circumstances for capital punishment are for serial killers or murderers, such as Timothy McVeigh who bombed the federal building in Oklahoma City murdering innocent victims. <---That is just one example. While I do not believe in capital punishment and the state of Minnesota where I live does not have capital punishment, is murdering a woman for having an affair outside or marriage or having a serial killer executed the same thing? I do not believe it is...But that is my opinion.

Simply stated, I believe that killing the woman is one of the most barbaric things I have ever heard of. Believe me, a majority of people would feel much more comfortable if a serial killer was no longer with us on this earth than an Arab woman commiting adultery.

Perhaps you should leave your country and move to the States to see for yourself what it is all about.

In response to your earlier posts towards me, I feel the vulgar terms you used are not appropriate for you or other forum members to be using here. There are young girls and teenagers who use this website. What kind of an example are we setting for them. I believe I had a right to state my opinion and tell you, you were wrong in using vulgar terms.

KuteNurse · 02-06-2008, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A'isha Azar

Dear Gang,
I have to agree with Gypsy. We are very quick to point fingers at the way other countries handle things, and also often English captions do not match what is going on in photos or often on the news. During the Iran crisis I happened to be watching a news program with Masoud Chamasmani, my Persian dance instructor. The English stated that "students" in Tehran were protesting against American policies toward Iran. Masoud started laughing and when I asked him what was funny he told me. "Look at the people who are protesting. What do you see?" What I saw appeared to be poor older men in very traditional clothing, not at all like anything very remotely student like. Masoud told me that these were farmers from outside the city, probably not very well educated, who were told by the government to protest. It had nothing at all to do with how the students of Iran felt about the American government.
I try not to be any more or less critical of the way that things are handled in other countries than I am here. Not only are one in four women beaten in domestic violence, in my country, 1 in 4 children goes to bed hungry at night.
That makes it really difficult for me to say that any other country is worse than my own. I abhor terrible treatment no matter where it is, and I can see plenty here to complain about, too.
Regards,
A'isha

A'isha,

I agree with you, however, they are statistics and no one really knows for certain if that is the amount of domestic violence against women. Also, we have to keep in mind there are different levels of domestic abuse. For example, some women report men to be abussive for control even though the man was not abusive. Another example, abuse does not know social status. An upper class man may be more abusive than a lower class man. They are just statistics. I agree with you that abusive treatment of ANY kind, no matter what country you are in should not be tolerated. I see many children who come from poverty because I am a nurse. It is absolutely heartbreaking to see. But the same is true...They are statistics and no one knows for certain what the actual number is. I have gone to bed upset or crying because of a particular child who has stuck in my mind. At work, myself and my coworkers have just wanted to take the child and bring them home and give them a warm bath, clean clothes, good food to eat and a stable environment. As we all know, that doesn't happen.

Also, I agree with you about the news and you cannot always believe what you hear. Many stories get reported incorrectly.

da Sage · 02-06-2008, 04:31 AM

I would like to speak up in defense of KuteNurse. She shared her honest, and occasionally naive, reaction to the videos. I would like to thank her for her candor. She is here to learn, just as I am. And she began her initial post with a statement that she was trying not to offend anyone. I am sure that was a true statement...the original offense was unintentional.

I don't agree with her choice to report gypsy for "cow doodoo". I am pretty certain she regrets that decision, and will not repeat it.

But women (and men) do suffer persecution for actual and suspected transgressions of the moral code in Saudi Arabia. Here are some accounts:

"suddenly a man, who introduced himself as a member of the religious police, asked me accusingly whether my companion was my wife."
"we hear of many cases where they detain suspects and beat them up."
BBC NEWS | Have Your Say | Religious police: Saudi readers' views

"The unnamed woman...and her daughter were allegedly wrongfully arrested in a shopping centre car park in 2004 for "not wearing decent clothing"...the religious policeman in question arrested the pair, commandeered the car from their driver and drove them to his headquarters where the already sick mother suffered "health complications"."
Al Jazeera English - News - Saudi Woman Sues Moral Police

Individual women may not be bothered by the restrictions, but we should not pretend that is exactly what they are - restrictions that apply to everyone, whether the woman consents or not.

If I went to a police station in France or the USA, and wanted to file a report that my husband had beaten me, they would take the report, and possibly arrest my husband. I could at least get a court date and/or a restraining order. In most first world countries, that is the case. I honestly do not know if I could get the same results in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, or Dubai, and it is not because of lack of money to run government services! In fact, I rather doubt it...and I hope you will pardon my ignorance, and gently educate me if I am wrong.

I often shop at the Mall of America, where I see many women wearing the distinctive Muslim head scarves. Many are tourists, many are locals, and some of them work there. But I have heard stories of women removing their hijab while abroad, and donning it again when they return to their home country...I believe those stories are true. And if so, those women are conforming to their country's restrictions, not their religious convictions, when they cover at home.

And let's not pretend that temporary solitary confinement is just as barbaric as beheading...

As for "your most distant relative taking you in"...this is not always true. Many children in Afghan orphanages are there because their relatives "cannot afford to keep them". They will turn up and object if an ungodly American tries to adopt the child, however! And a local restaurant owner (I forget which Middle-Eastern country he was from) was turned out onto the street by his family at a very young age, because of poverty. He became a falafel street vendor, eventually gained the nickname of the Falafel King, and eventually emigrated to the USA, where he opened a Middle Eastern restaurant in Minneapolis, also called Falafel King.

Everyone knows that poverty does horrible things to society. But the common culture in Muslim societies around the world (which is not strictly supported by the Koran), does devalue the women, and restrict them in ways that are quite significant, even damaging.

There are many things wrong with American society, Central African societies, Korean society...Middle Eastern societies also have their share of injustice. I am sure that many Middle Eastern women would gladly adopt the headscarf for life, if it was in exchange for the right to unrestricted travel within their own countries, the right to leave their country without their families' permission, the right to drive themselves, the right to free association, the right to have their testimony count the same as a man's, and the ability to live and work independently of their families without being branded a whore.

I don't think it's a mistake that the mandated hijab accompanies all these other legal restrictions. I think that they go hand in hand.

In conclusion, while I don't agree with all of KuteNurse's reactions, I understand what she was reacting to in the original videos. I feel the society shown is well deserving of a reaction.

KuteNurse · 02-06-2008, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by da Sage

I would like to speak up in defense of KuteNurse. She shared her honest, and occasionally naive, reaction to the videos. I would like to thank her for her candor. She is here to learn, just as I am. And she began her initial post with a statement that she was trying not to offend anyone. I am sure that was a true statement...the original offense was unintentional.

I don't agree with her choice to report gypsy for "cow doodoo". I am pretty certain she regrets that decision, and will not repeat it.

But women (and men) do suffer persecution for actual and suspected transgressions of the moral code in Saudi Arabia. Here are some accounts:

"suddenly a man, who introduced himself as a member of the religious police, asked me accusingly whether my companion was my wife."
"we hear of many cases where they detain suspects and beat them up."
BBC NEWS | Have Your Say | Religious police: Saudi readers' views

"The unnamed woman...and her daughter were allegedly wrongfully arrested in a shopping centre car park in 2004 for "not wearing decent clothing"...the religious policeman in question arrested the pair, commandeered the car from their driver and drove them to his headquarters where the already sick mother suffered "health complications"."
Al Jazeera English - News - Saudi Woman Sues Moral Police

Individual women may not be bothered by the restrictions, but we should not pretend that is exactly what they are - restrictions that apply to everyone, whether the woman consents or not.

If I went to a police station in France or the USA, and wanted to file a report that my husband had beaten me, they would take the report, and possibly arrest my husband. I could at least get a court date and/or a restraining order. In most first world countries, that is the case. I honestly do not know if I could get the same results in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, or Dubai, and it is not because of lack of money to run government services! In fact, I rather doubt it...and I hope you will pardon my ignorance, and gently educate me if I am wrong.

I often shop at the Mall of America, where I see many women wearing the distinctive Muslim head scarves. Many are tourists, many are locals, and some of them work there. But I have heard stories of women removing their hijab while abroad, and donning it again when they return to their home country...I believe those stories are true. And if so, those women are conforming to their country's restrictions, not their religious convictions, when they cover at home.

And let's not pretend that temporary solitary confinement is just as barbaric as beheading...

As for "your most distant relative taking you in"...this is not always true. Many children in Afghan orphanages are there because their relatives "cannot afford to keep them". They will turn up and object if an ungodly American tries to adopt the child, however! And a local restaurant owner (I forget which Middle-Eastern country he was from) was turned out onto the street by his family at a very young age, because of poverty. He became a falafel street vendor, eventually gained the nickname of the Falafel King, and eventually emigrated to the USA, where he opened a Middle Eastern restaurant in Minneapolis, also called Falafel King.

Everyone knows that poverty does horrible things to society. But the common culture in Muslim societies around the world (which is not strictly supported by the Koran), does devalue the women, and restrict them in ways that are quite significant, even damaging.

There are many things wrong with American society, Central African societies, Korean society...Middle Eastern societies also have their share of injustice. I am sure that many Middle Eastern women would gladly adopt the headscarf for life, if it was in exchange for the right to unrestricted travel within their own countries, the right to leave their country without their families' permission, the right to drive themselves, the right to free association, the right to have their testimony count the same as a man's, and the ability to live and work independently of their families without being branded a whore.

I don't think it's a mistake that the mandated hijab accompanies all these other legal restrictions. I think that they go hand in hand.

In conclusion, while I don't agree with all of KuteNurse's reactions, I understand what she was reacting to in the original videos. I feel the society shown is well deserving of a reaction.

Thankyou daSage for your moral support and for your respecting my opinions. I was genuine when I stated I did not want to offend anyone. But I felt I had a right to voice my opinions. I also am here to learn, just as everyone else on this forum.

I was curious if anyone had any information on men from Iran who had extra-marital affairs, if they would be treated with the same punishment. From everything I have read, and I am naively admitting this, because I have not found any documentation. I have not seen men punished in the same way. Correct me if I am wrong. I did read that men who are gay are punished severely?

Ranya · 02-06-2008, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gypsy8522

Ranya,

I think you are mixing up between higab and sheila.

The black scarf women in these pictures are wearing is called 'sheila' , it comes together with the abaya, and this is the national costume of Arab women in the gulf. While higab can be made of any material and any color, sheila is black in color and it's made from crepe material.

The higab is a religous symbol and its purpose is to cover the hair, it doesn't belong to a certain country or culture. You can find women all over the world wearing the higab.
If you see women wearing a sheila with their hair sticking out, it means they are wearing it because of their culture and not necessarily observing higab. While these two things (culture and religion) are closely interwined, they are not the same.

It is similar in concept to the dupatta worn by south asian women Dupatta - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia,

Thanks Gypsy!!! I did not know that. I thought that it was supposed to be "islamic" fashion, in order for the women to be pretty and observing the hijab.
We actually had that topic last year in "Marketing in islamic environment" but yes, know I see that the stuff we saw was hijab without any particular ethnic or national origin.
Thanks again (would give you rep, but says I have to give to others before giving it again to you)

02-05-2008, 11:21 PM	#62 (permalink)
Aisha Azar Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Pacific Northwest USA Posts: 4,015	Beheadings Dear Kutenurse, I was not referring to a specific story because I can no longer remember any specific one off the top of my head. I consider beheadings to be barbaric; just as barbaric as the concept of solitary confinement, for example, which, I learned in sociology class often leads to intense mental instability. Regards, A'isha

02-06-2008, 02:01 AM	#65 (permalink)
Aisha Azar Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Pacific Northwest USA Posts: 4,015	Saudi, etc. Dear Gang, I have to agree with Gypsy. We are very quick to point fingers at the way other countries handle things, and also often English captions do not match what is going on in photos or often on the news. During the Iran crisis I happened to be watching a news program with Masoud Chamasmani, my Persian dance instructor. The English stated that "students" in Tehran were protesting against American policies toward Iran. Masoud started laughing and when I asked him what was funny he told me. "Look at the people who are protesting. What do you see?" What I saw appeared to be poor older men in very traditional clothing, not at all like anything very remotely student like. Masoud told me that these were farmers from outside the city, probably not very well educated, who were told by the government to protest. It had nothing at all to do with how the students of Iran felt about the American government. I try not to be any more or less critical of the way that things are handled in other countries than I am here. Not only are one in four women beaten in domestic violence, in my country, 1 in 4 children goes to bed hungry at night. That makes it really difficult for me to say that any other country is worse than my own. I abhor terrible treatment no matter where it is, and I can see plenty here to complain about, too. Regards, A'isha

02-06-2008, 01:11 AM	#63 (permalink)
gypsy8522 Moderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 468	Now, while that video is labled in English " Iraqi woman beaten by her husband for not covering her face", it doesn't seem the arabic dialogue going on in the video had anything to do with the veil. This is one more reason to be grateful I speak other languages besides English! I could post clips that show physical and sexual abuse on the hands of 'Americans' in Abu Ghraib, torture and breach of human rights in Guantanamo Bay, and footage to the raping of young girls in Iraq. And I could also post articles of hundreds of western females and stories about their abusive relationships. But I doubt those who come to this thread would be interested in any of that. I don't get the 'veil equals beating up woman' logic, a woman could be wearing a short skirt and still get beaten up by her boyfriend or husband. The content of those articles, videos were barbaric , for sure. But does that mean it represents the life of all Arabic women as a certain person was implying more than once in this thread? I saw on Oprah once that 1 in every 4 American women have been victims of domestic violence, and these are just the women who came forward and reported it! YouTube - 1 in 4 Women Victims of Domestic Violence I tried in my last post to turn this thread around into a less serious topic and to correct some misconceptions, but it seems some people won't let go and insist on sharing information based on their own prejudices and misinformation. Coming to think of it, it's not a bad idea to "live outside America" for a while, try seeing the world through a different lense, in order to see how our reality and the world around us changes. We cannot argue about changing the world, if one does not know the world first. I agree about the beheading, that it is not in any way "less barbaric" than solitary confinement. Not to mention electrocution, lethal injections, and gas poison, all which are legal methods of execution in the United States. Technically, the beheadings are "merciful" in comparison, at least the person doen't go through suffering and torture before dying.

02-06-2008, 04:31 AM	#68 (permalink)
da Sage V.I.P. Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: MN Posts: 1,001	I would like to speak up in defense of KuteNurse. She shared her honest, and occasionally naive, reaction to the videos. I would like to thank her for her candor. She is here to learn, just as I am. And she began her initial post with a statement that she was trying not to offend anyone. I am sure that was a true statement...the original offense was unintentional. I don't agree with her choice to report gypsy for "cow doodoo". I am pretty certain she regrets that decision, and will not repeat it. But women (and men) do suffer persecution for actual and suspected transgressions of the moral code in Saudi Arabia. Here are some accounts: "suddenly a man, who introduced himself as a member of the religious police, asked me accusingly whether my companion was my wife." "we hear of many cases where they detain suspects and beat them up." BBC NEWS \| Have Your Say \| Religious police: Saudi readers' views "The unnamed woman...and her daughter were allegedly wrongfully arrested in a shopping centre car park in 2004 for "not wearing decent clothing"...the religious policeman in question arrested the pair, commandeered the car from their driver and drove them to his headquarters where the already sick mother suffered "health complications"." Al Jazeera English - News - Saudi Woman Sues Moral Police Individual women may not be bothered by the restrictions, but we should not pretend that is exactly what they are - restrictions that apply to everyone, whether the woman consents or not. If I went to a police station in France or the USA, and wanted to file a report that my husband had beaten me, they would take the report, and possibly arrest my husband. I could at least get a court date and/or a restraining order. In most first world countries, that is the case. I honestly do not know if I could get the same results in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, or Dubai, and it is not because of lack of money to run government services! In fact, I rather doubt it...and I hope you will pardon my ignorance, and gently educate me if I am wrong. I often shop at the Mall of America, where I see many women wearing the distinctive Muslim head scarves. Many are tourists, many are locals, and some of them work there. But I have heard stories of women removing their hijab while abroad, and donning it again when they return to their home country...I believe those stories are true. And if so, those women are conforming to their country's restrictions, not their religious convictions, when they cover at home. And let's not pretend that temporary solitary confinement is just as barbaric as beheading... As for "your most distant relative taking you in"...this is not always true. Many children in Afghan orphanages are there because their relatives "cannot afford to keep them". They will turn up and object if an ungodly American tries to adopt the child, however! And a local restaurant owner (I forget which Middle-Eastern country he was from) was turned out onto the street by his family at a very young age, because of poverty. He became a falafel street vendor, eventually gained the nickname of the Falafel King, and eventually emigrated to the USA, where he opened a Middle Eastern restaurant in Minneapolis, also called Falafel King. Everyone knows that poverty does horrible things to society. But the common culture in Muslim societies around the world (which is not strictly supported by the Koran), does devalue the women, and restrict them in ways that are quite significant, even damaging. There are many things wrong with American society, Central African societies, Korean society...Middle Eastern societies also have their share of injustice. I am sure that many Middle Eastern women would gladly adopt the headscarf for life, if it was in exchange for the right to unrestricted travel within their own countries, the right to leave their country without their families' permission, the right to drive themselves, the right to free association, the right to have their testimony count the same as a man's, and the ability to live and work independently of their families without being branded a whore. I don't think it's a mistake that the mandated hijab accompanies all these other legal restrictions. I think that they go hand in hand. In conclusion, while I don't agree with all of KuteNurse's reactions, I understand what she was reacting to in the original videos. I feel the society shown is well deserving of a reaction.