Moon

I'm curious, how do poor women without a pool or air conditioned homes/cars and no money for expensive shopping centres spend the day?

Mosaic

I just finished reading a book " At The Drop of a Veil" by Marianne Alireza. Fantastic true account of her life in Saudi during 40s to 60s. It is out of print, I bought it 2nd hand.
Marianne Alireza is an American woman who meet her husband at Uni.

She spent her day with the women folk of the family, they cooked, played various games, looked after the children, visited friends or they visited her family. They were a well off family, and less restricted that many of that era, but always wore the abaya outdoors. From what I gathered the poorer folk had similar but more restrictive lives and worked a lot harder to make ends meet.

The poor of today I can only guess, but I would think life is pretty hard for them, the men as well as they have to make ends meet day in and day out, but of course they can come and go more or less as they please. The women would be bound to the home or close to it. Friends and family and children, would be the mainstay of these women I would think

The book really gave a great insight into life in Saudi during its move from a poor nation to being oil rich.

Aisha Azar

Dear Mosaic,
It's a great book!! Marianne Alireza is now divorced from her Saudi husband,if I remember correctly. ( Please do not quote me here, because it is highly possible I have her mixed up with someone else.) She had several children herself ,and she has also done lectures and written articles. I love her!!
Regards,
A'isha

Jane

When my husband was stationed near Riyad (sp?) in the early 90's, he witnessed a group of women publicly beheaded in the town square. Why? They saw UK and American service women driving and tried to drive too.

I object to the lack of choice these women have. When they don't agree, or choose to speak out, they are forced and sometimes killed.

Aisha Azar

Dear Jane,
Gosh... is he sure that's the reason? Usually you have to do something like commit a political crime or have sex outside of wedlock to be beheaded. From what I hear and what I have read, they do not even usually fine the women or anything, thinking that the shame they bring on their families for not acting like upstanding citizens is punishment enough.
Regards,
A'isha

Mosaic

You are correct, It was a very big shock to her, he divorced her from his hospital bed in USA Saudi/Muslim? style, without warning, although she did say he had been acting strangely and withdrawn. Quite sad really as she loved him very much, but he had another woman/wife by then. She had 5 children. The eldest girl was married off to a cousin by the men of the family and she didn't really mention her after that. I don't think she was able to see her very much from what I gather as in reading between the lines in the book. I would love to hear her lectures. It was a great book. The 2nd hand one I managed to buy actually is signed by Marianne Alireza. So that is a keeper

Mosaic

That would be horrific to witness. I would be danged if I would do anything that would/could result in my head being chopped off - they were/are awfully brave to take the risk <shudder> We are lucky we don't have to face such a thing. I would like to see oppressed peoples everywhere given the right to speak out without some harsh punishment. But I also believe that whatever country you are in you must stay within the laws of that land, if you feel you can't live in such a manner then you must leave. Yes we as foreigners can chose to do that, and the women ( in particular) very often don't have that choice. It will take many a brave soul I think to bring about change. That has always been so. Even in the west, thank goodness I never lived in a time when I didn't have the rights I have today!

I look at Australia, America and South Africa in the not too distant past the rights of the aboriginal people here, the African Americans, and Africans of Sth Africa were totally oppressed and degraded. So the wests human rights/womens rights record is not exactly clean.

In Indonesia one often hears the Indonesians say that the west should butt out of others affairs and clean up their own backyards. Sadly I do agree quite often about
that statement. The western world gets their knickers in a knot about rights elsewhere, but we do need to look deeply into our own cultures with eyes wide open and underneath all the political correctness etc one will still find areas that need change.

I agree we should be prepared to support those who stick their necks out (excuse the pun) - But not in such a way where we can escape the chop and leave others to pay the price. I know our "western" way is often abhorrent to Muslims yes even the women, but having said Muslims I must also say non Muslim Middle Eastern and some Asian folk, especially older generations. To be truthful I also find some Western culture rather embarrassing. Having lived so long in a Muslim country and also being married to a Malaysian Chinese, I see the best and worst of both worlds, and try not to judge. I tend to vent and stand up for the rights of animals who can't speak for themselves.

OK I think I should just creep away now

Aisha Azar

Dear Gagn,
I am trying to think of a few of the things I have heard about beheadings from Saudis. It seems like a lot of beheadings are not even of Saudi nationals, but of people who have tried to sneak drugs or alcohol into the country, mostly people not from First World countries, but Pakistanis and others who work there and are from poor countries. In the airport, people are warned about it, even.
My best friend is Saudi as many of you already know and she says that there is a family in Saudi Arabia who has many family members that end up getting beheaded because they are always in trouble. The family is even kind of famous, (or perhaps infamous) for it. I wish I could remember the name!
The law reads that single people are not beheaded for having sex outside marriage, but married people can be beheaded. Single people are publicly beaten. Of course, this does not mean that a girl's father or brother might not kill her for it, but then again, she might just live,too. And there is the question of whether the King's favorite niece was beheaded or if some poor innocent woman was beheaded in her place. I am referring to the documentary" Death of a Princess", in which King Fahd's favorite niece had an affair and was caught, even though she was not married, and supposedly beheaded. There are reasons to doubt she was.
Many times political crimes are punished with beheadings, and any crime against the religion.
That's about it off the top of my head. I will try to look up my master's thesis and see if I can come up with more.
Regards,
A'isha

Jane

He said he didn't understand what was happening and found a Saudi man, who spoke English and was there. The Saudi man told him "the women were acting like men" and "had been caught driving" and were "guilty of bringing in western values". He also said a lot of other non-flattering things about the foreign service women. Maybe the penalty was worse because it was during a time of war, or maybe the Saudi man didn't know exactly what was happening either. This is all I know, sorry!

Aisha Azar

Dear Jane,
Thanks for sharing what your husband experienced. Interesting about his comments about the foreign service women... so not like a Saudi to be that forward without knowing your husband very well.... It takes all kinds, I guess.
Regards,
A'isha