Ranya

I really enjoyed the video. However on the topic of choosing to cover up, like nicknack said, when it is law, there is no choice left. I have many Saudi class mates, girls also, and they tell me, that on the contrary, most women (from their/my generation) would not choose to cover up and there is only one girl that kept her veil here, but it is not the abaya, she wears very tight clothes (long sleeves but still very fashionable) and very fashionable veils and it is more like a habit she is used to. I don't think she prays five times a day or anything. She is stunningly beautiful and all the guys are looking at her and from what I know the veil is supposed to not let this happen. So in my opinion, wearing the JUST the veil to cover her hair is somehow pointless in the case of the girl. Now there is another girl in my school that wears the veil and she is devout, prays five times a day and even though she wears nice clothes and all that they are relatively large so you do not see the contours of her body.
Now I am judging on noone, as long as people are happy as they are, but I do believe that the veil should not be imposed by law as it should not be maybe banned by law (such as in France, although you can wear it at college or university).
And I agree with gypsy from her previous post in response to Kute Nurse, that one should not judge all arabs by saudis and not judge all saudis by western standards. On car driving, the girls really don't care, as long as they get where they want to, just like Suzan says in the first video.

Aisha Azar

Dear Kutenurse,
My personal experience has been that when my husband has come with me visit in a Saudi home here in America, that the women usually put on only hijab, the head covering. They do not put on all their outside garments, or cover their faces. This has happened often enough so that I think it might be the norm. Also, Saudi houses usually have a majlis, or living room,where men go to visit if they are there to visit with the men of the house. The women are free to be in the rest of the house. The children of both sexes seem to go wherever they want. Since they would not know the women, there is no need for the men to visit them. A brother inlaw or nephew is often considered a close enough relative so that they are considered family. In many cases, your brother inlaw is also your cousin and perhaps a person that you grew up with.
Even in Bedouin tents there is a piece of sadou that separates the mens' part of the tent from the womens'. There is a thing that men say sometimes if you try to gossip with them and they want to appear superior. They say,"I don't know anything about that situation. You have to ask somebody on the other side of the tent." Sadou, by the way, is one of my passions. It is the woolen fabric made of camel or goat hair that tents, camel bags, rugs, hangings, etc are made from. I am fortunate to have some wonderful pieces given to me by some of my friends when they went back to their respective countries.
Another interesting thing that I have noticed is that Saudi houses only rarely seem to have family photos around in the more public areas of the house. I was talking to a Saudi friend one day about another Saudi girl's husband, who is just so very good looking. She said that she had never seen or met him, and about then I came back to my senses and realized that of course she had not!!
Usually here in America, even if they are in apartment, Saudis generally look for homes with entry ways that shield the body of the house from view.
Regards,
A'isha

KuteNurse

Yes...Peace is achieved easily by most people here. I think it is due to the fact that we all come here for one reason. To chat with other like-minded belly dancers Thankyou for finding the article on driving.

KuteNurse

***Correction, I just read that all Arab women are able to drive except in Saudi Arabia and I apologize for my mistake.

HOWEVER, Gypsy, I feel you have been very disrespectful and you have degraded me unneccesarily in this post I have quoted. NEVER in my experience in this forum has anyone been as rude to me as you have been. I have a right to my opinions and I am the first to admit if I am wrong. We are all human and sometimes we make mistakes. But because someone makes a mistake does not give you the right to humiliate them.

I think this thread has shown everyone your true nature and personality. I have reported you for your rude comments. Also for your swearing on another thread. And BTW...I am NOT narrowminded...I am among the most open-minded person you will ever find. Good Day.

janaki

Dear Kutenurse,

Hope you are not getting stressed by this thread sweetie. Oh yeah, you are entitled to your opinion. You are one of the nicest people on this forum, I feel bad if you are offended by any one. Difference of opinion is one thing and getting offended is another. There is no room for anyone to get offended on this forum.

A warm hug to you to make your day better!!!

Janaki

Hi everyone,

We all have exressed our different opinions. Lets cool off a bit and have a group hug pls.

HUUUUGGGGs
Janaki

gypsy8522

I am sorry that you feel this way, but you too were disrespectful and your statements are extremely demeaning to Arabic women. Everyone here knows my true personality, I never tried to misinform anyone, and I do not talk about things I know nothing about in order to refrain from sounding ignorant. Judging by the people here who agreed with me, I am inclined to believe my points are objective and valid. I did not humiliate you for making "a mistake", you're the one who humiliated yourself by trying to pass on perceptions that are based far away from reality as if they were facts. My reply was a response that was trigerred by your false generalizations. Trying to use reverse psychology on me won't work. And yes I can see that we are all human beings, as I was the one to first point that out.



I think we agreed before that we will not take issues from another thread onto a new one. Katenurse, let me assure you that I have never in my life cursed at anybody, not even when I'm angry or get hurt. If you mean the word "bullshit" from racism thread, if you care to look one comment above on that same thread you'll see that a forum moderater has used the same word, it was not an attempt to insult or curse at anyone in this forum. Please stop using excuses to hide your embarrassment.

Chani

,

I do agree with you about the driving and it is good that this is changing. I don't see thewomen's clothing as such a big deal. We have similar dress codes. Men here in Australia can swim at the beach or pool, walk in public, down any street and into stores etc. with their shirts off. If I do the same thing it is considered indecent exposure and it is illegal. Women have been arrested for it. There used to be a few beaches in Sydney that did allow nudity and women being topless but that has changed since we how have so many tourists from overseaas and they enforce these laws on these beaches now. On a hot day, and we have stinking hot Summers, I evny my husband and my teenage son that they can just whip their shirts off almost any time. Little girls can sometimes get away with it, like five year olds. Out of respect my son and hubby do wear a shirt if my mother visits or any older woman are around and they also wear shirts when shopping but certainly it's not a requirement. And it's not just the heat. I have been breastfeeding in total for almost 10 years and consistently for the past 7.5 years (still going). I've breastfed through two severe heatwaves. Having to wear a top has been very inconvenient and actually, at home I do go topless much of the time unless we have visitors. I may think I am choosing to wear what I like but when I think about it I'm not always as free to wear what I want as I'd like to believe.

Sometimes it works the other way around. In a work setting (I work in offices) I can choose to wear a short skirt, strappy shoes and even halter tops whereas men in that same setting must wear long pants, covered shoes and often a full suit and tie so on a hot day in that situation I'm ahead. To a nightclub I can wear shorts, thongs and a singlet top as long as they are dressy whereas for men the dress code is no thongs, shorts or singlets.

I am not of any official religion but generally when I am hanging out with people of the same beliefs I don't eat with non-family males. We only do this on a regular day - at parties everybody will eat food together including women with non-family members (male friends or even strangers). Generally (butnot always) the women cook the meals and everybody is called to serve their plates and we go to our separate areas to eat. I will eat with just the women in another area while the men eat separately or sometimes we will eat in family groups and I will eat with my daughters and my huaband and son. Sometimes we will have a big family dinner and I'll eat with all the males in my family - my husband, son, father, grandfather's, FIL, BIL, uncles, nephews etc. as well as the women at the same table. While in the community it is only at social parties like birthday parties that we all eat together men and women, strangers and friends alike. This is by choice and I like it. I like to be relaxed when I eat and I am most relaxed eating with other women and males in my immediate family. I love to sit eating in the group of women - of course, we talk about different things than we would if the men were around (like the men hehe and other female things). The young boys hang around either their mothers or the men but they like to hang out with the men long before we would kick them out of the women's circle.

This is only what happens when I am staying in the community. In actuality, I live full time in the city far away from people of the same faith as ourselves and we as a rule follow the same as everybody around us except for a few dietary restrictions. This is both to be polite to others and simply to fit in. Even at times if people forget our dietary restrictions we will break them to be polite.

Anyway, I just thought those aspects of these women's lives weren't so different to some of mine. I also don't drive - but that really is by choice so unlike these women.

Chani

Amber

Reputation points for gypsy!

Simone min al Akariyah

Maria, you made me diving into my previous life. Thank you very much. Still miss my Saudi for many reasons.

In dry-hot Riyadh even in summertime my Abaya was not disturbing. You also have to consider the life-style: all buildings, all cars incl. Taxis are air-conditioned. Women just don't spend their time outside in public - not even foreigners. If you walk or wait outside for more than five minutes that's a lot. Shops closes before noon and reopen in the late afternoon. You will spend your Siesta-time in your residential compound at and in the Pool in your Bikini.
Saudi people especially women preferably leave their houses after sunset to go out which means from air-condioned residential houses into a car/Taxi into a fully air-conditioned shopping center.
By the way, in the desert, apart from public roads you take off your Abaya.

In humid-hot Jeddah or Damman, however, my Abaya was very unfitting. I wished I had half-naked arms. On the other hand, Saudi boys and men share the same destiny. Their arms are also covered with the white dress.


What I really, really missed in these two interviws was the face-veil correcting gesture: these face-veils use to slide upstairs every minute disturbing and irritating your lower eye-lids. So, when you look at Saudi females you permanently see them pulling down their face-veil with a hand. Women in other parts of the world practise other habits but be aware that the skin under the eyes is very thin and sensitive. It might take more years for a Saudi Teenager to get used to it.


the transportation thing:
just a minority of women in Saudi (natives or foreigners) have a car with chaperone/chauffeur. The solution is: Taxis, expensive for Westerners like Europeans, Australians... cheaper for Saudis or Filipinas. Men basicly pay less for a Taxi than women. Residential compounds for foreigners provide shopping busses free of charge.

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janaki

Sorry I missed reading some information on this post. I have to make it clear.

Let me tell you about how I feel about it. Gypsy is very knowledgable about belly dance and arab/egyptian cultures. I find her very passonate, strong and straight forward person. This can be misread by some people to be rude. She is simply straight to the point. Everyone on this forum is different and she is too. I admire and appreciate that. She is definitely an asset to this forum.

I ask all of you guys not to judge personalities of people based on a post/thread. What we contribute here is very little part in our lives. It takes a lot lot more to know a person's personality.

Lets all love each other!!!