KuteNurse

Farasha Hanem,

As I said above to Maria, I will no longer debate here. I would be happy to start a thread in the sauna section if you or anyone is interested. I do not have any "Hang ups" about women not driving. I personally do not like driving in snowstorms. I respect your decision to not drive. After all, it is your wish not to do so. You are correct about the lady in the video saying she did not need to wear her robes in her own home. However, I believe she said she did have to wear her robes when she had company in her home other than family. Does anyone know who is considered family in a Saudi home? For instance, would a brother-in-law or a nephew be allowed to view a Saudi Arabian women without her robes?

Farasha Hanem

Um, I wasn't trying to debate; sorry if I made you feel offended. I don't like confrontations.

KuteNurse

A'isha,

I remember you saying your dearest friends were middle eastern. I also know a few Arab women and I think highly of them. They are intelligent, beautiful and gentle hearted women. 3 out of the 4 Arab women are living American lives without robes. 1 chooses to wear her robes, but without a veil. 3 of them drive vehicles. 1 attends a Catholic church. 1 has psycological problems due to being severely abused while living in an Arab country. Unfortunately, she is currently in the hospital being treated for severe depression. I sent her beautiful flowers a couple of days ago and I hope they are cheering her up. She is not being allowed visitors at this time, but I hope to visit her soon. Her family is having a difficult time. I had a volunteer team at work make her children fleece tie blankets to cheer them up a bit. I know blankets are not a substitute for a mother, but maybe the blankets will bring some comfort to them. They are in my prayers.

KuteNurse

You didn't offend me Smile I truly respect your decision if you do not like driving. That is the great thing about living in the United States...You can make your own decisons My mom didn't drive until I was well into grade school. It was by her choice, however, my parents only had one car at that time and my dad had the car during the day at work. It was not until I was in junior high when we had two cars. Now that I look back at it, it must have been difficult for my mom to get us to appointments, school functions etc. I made the debate statement for my own self. I told Maria in an earlier post I would not debate here...lol It was for my benefit and not yours. And I will stand by it Goll Darn It! lol

Farasha Hanem

*hugs!*

KuteNurse

HUGS!! Sheesh! It is 3:40 AM! I better get some sleep.

maariku

I love how we can settle issues peacefully here

And I also love the idea that has been brought up here foreveral times - that "normal" is a very vague term... We all have a different understanding of it.

As for the bit on driving, I can not remember where I read this article. However, I did find a recent article, which shows it in a bit of a different light... That granting the legal right to drive is still in progress and the justification behind it is more about women. Saudi Arabia to lift ban on women drivers - Telegraph

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"[A good bellydancer] must express life, death, happiness, sorrow, love and anger, but above all she must have dignity." -Tahia Carioca,

Mosaic

Great videos, hopefully more people will take the time to view them. Muslims are just like us, have similar wants and needs

Sure women cover up when they leave their homes, Saudi Women are expected to, and they actual prefer to. It has been their way of life for so long they would be horrified if they were told they were not allowed to cover up when they leave their homes. In some Muslim countries it is choice and surprising as it may seem to the western world, they often chose to veil in some way.

Apparently when the Afghani women were told they didn't have to wear the full all covering burqa they were afraid to go out without it, they felt exposed and kind of half dressed.

In Indonesia (the largest Muslim population in the world) some chose the full burqa, some chose just the hijab, some chose light chiffon style veiling/headcovers, some chose to wear a hat like covering where they tuck all their hair into the hat, some chose not to use any coverings. Personally I think the hijab framing a women's face can be very flattering, also to see 2 expressive eyes looking at you from the burqa as is worn in Saudi, is quite charming and mysterious Having lived in Indonesia for 11 years I don't have any ambivilence towards the hijab/burqa. I would guess that least 95 to 98% of women chose to wear them.

The west just does not have any great understanding at all of this 'tradition'. Yet if you look back in history you will see that European and Celtic women wore shawls over their heads and wouldn't leave the house without their heads covered. It is not so long ago that Irish women also wore a shawl over their hair. Throughout history head coverings have been the norm not the exception.

Also in Middle eastern countries covering up in the heat protects them from the fierce sun. In Indonesia the same can be said there. Even those who don't use head coverings all the time on very hot days will wear long sleeves and pants and a light veil over their heads. It is actually quite sensible. I often threw a light chiffon shawl over my head when out in the sun. They are quite beautiful the head shawls, embroidered and have delicate fringing on the ends. I honestly believe too many westerners condemn without understanding. The ways of the west are not perfect and I am quite horrified at some of the so called fashion one sees these days. Also some of the TV programs are honestly quite revolting, Such as 'Wild On', that playboy one with those 3 dipsy blondes and so forth. They certainly do not give a good impression of America to the rest of the world ( sorry they are American programs and so impressions are made of a country by what is seen on TV and heard through the media) That is my point actually, what we are told by the media or are shown via various programs is not a true picture of a nation.

I am not Muslim, but have many dear friends who are, they love life just like we do and aspire to similar things, whether they wear, Hijab/burqa/veil or just western style clothes without covering.

Everyone wherever they may come from, believe in, must learn to be more understanding, tolerant and accepting.

Sure there will always be the scoffers, crazies, the bitter, the angry and those who believe their way is the only way and they come from all races/cultures and creeds. But we don't need to be one of them.

Mosaic

Oh how I agree with you on the driving I drive because it is necessary, and i have a GPS in my car because I get lost easily and then panic. I feel better about driving now I have the GPS. But won't drive at night unless I was absolutely forced to for some emergency. When I lived in Indonesia I drove once and was stressed out for weeks. I ended up getting a driver and it was wonderful! How I wish I could afford one here in Australia.

Lydia - I hope one day I can visit UAE I am in awe of your small country. I have watched discovery channel programs on the creation of the palm and world map islands, along with how the city of Dubai was literally carved out of the desert. Just incredible. I keep telling my husband to find work there LOL! I would move there in a flash ( I'd move to Egypt if I could as well)

Mosaic

I agree with you about wearing what to me would be heavy clothing ( the abaya) I also would feel unbearably hot in so many layers. I use to ask my friends in Indonesia if they were hot mind you many of them there wore white rather than black, but they always said no they were fine. they found my airconditioned house freezing and I always had blankets on my chairs LOL so they could wrap up. I came to the conclusion that genetically you adapt to your environment, so take someone out of that climate and put them somewhere entirely different and they can find it rather stressful bodywise. Yes we do learn to adapt to a certain extent, but many don't completely adapt. I had airconditioning on 24 hours a day. I did love the mornings outdoors and after 8pm, it was still hot and humid but quite bearable. But if you threw me into some place like Greenland, or any of the cold Scandanavian countries where one sees little sun and long cold winters with heaps of snow. I would never go outside. I detest the cold with a passion, and hibernate in Australias mild winters so dump me in a cold cold land and you would never see me unless you came to visit.

I believe I would also feel quite nervous climbing steps/stairs in an abaya, and would probably trip quite a lot. If I could see clearly like wearing a long robe of some sort but with my face free I could manage then. Mind you if one had sweat running down one's face that could be a problem, as that sure can blur your vision if it gets in your eyes. I am amazed at how women get around without any problems in Abaya or the full burqa, they deserve accolades I am sure they would laugh at me I would so clumsy and I would join their laughter and probably stumble even more.