Caroline_afifi

I believe that most societies and religons dont do women any favours. I would not defend any of them actually. Women all over the world are oppressed.
What is going on here? Men still rule the roost and many women have fought back but people around the world face different issues so it is not always possible.
Battered women often defend their partners when the police come around.

charity

thank you.

edit: nevermind

belly_dancer

exactly... who is the kettle to call the pot black???
& most battered women defend the man, cause otherwise it is out of the frying pan & into the fire (OOPS... must be getting hungry w/ all this reference to cookware!)... many of these women think they will have a worse life without that man, due to financial reasons stemming from lack of education/children to raise/the fact that a woman still makes about 70 cents to the dollar/etc etc etc/(& oh yeah... there is somewhere a disturbing statistic I read that most women are who are MURDERED by the abuser, are murdered AFTER they leave... not while they are in the relationship)... but hey... WE can walk down the street in a mini skirt!!
ooh one more disturbing statistic that I read (just today) 4-8 PERCENT of pregnant women in AMERICA are abused by their "intimate partners".. that means that for those of you who have children... 1-2 (assuming you have the "small" class size of 25) of your school age children's classmate's moms were abused while pregnant... lovely...
(hey charity... does this post make my butt look fat???)

da Sage

Hi gypsy8522,

I feel that we got off on the wrong foot because I defended KuteNurse's right to express her honest opinion a while back. That is not because I agree with her on all (or even most!) things, but because I believe that hiding opinions so as not to offend just breeds more ignorance and separation. Frankly, I was disappointed with several of her opinions (how they seem not to change), and more importantly, her actions. But I think her honest response was valuable.

I was indoctrinated from birth that the Westerners running the USA are fallible, sometimes foolish, and often make poor decisions. That social conventions are sometimes silly, but inescapable.

And I'm not "telling" Jordan or Saudi Arabia what to do. I am stating my opinion of what sometimes happens there. If you want to talk about American kids shooting other kids at school, hey...at least they are prosecuted for it. I think how the legal system works is very important, both here and abroad. If the laws hurt people, or I feel they are not enforced fairly, I get frustrated. Unfortunately, I get frustrated a lot.

And sure, I'd mind if another country tried to interfere with our legal system. Interference is one thing...stating their opinions is another.

I supposed you are against Amnesty International as well? I for one support their efforts of "foreign conscience", even....especially when it is levied against the criminal acts of my own government. I think in some cases, foreign opinion has helped tip the balance towards a positive change.

And if you check my posts carefully, I've made repeated references to the de-facto (not always codified in law) requirement that women wear head scarves - if going bare-headed isn't really an option for women, because godly men (and women) will harass them, I feel that is linked to other institutionalized restrictions on women. I don't believe that all the hijabed women in Iran for example, wear hijab out of religious conviction. I think at least a large minority simply wish to avoid harassment. I think the idea of "she is not my religion or she's not moral enough, therefore she's fair game" is very damaging and wrong. Many people here have that feeling, and I feel some people in other countries have that feeling, too (but towards different groups).


While I haven't sent any letters specifically requesting that the USA get out of Saudi Arabia, I have sent many letters to my legislators about particular energy policies, trying to reduce our dependence on oil. And the US is trying to get out of Saudi Arabia...that's the other part of what the Iraq war is all about. The criminal idiots in the executive branch thought we could just replace our old Saudi military bases with new, Iraqi ones.

By the way, I'd love to hear what you have to say about the silent majority in Saudi Arabia. If you'd be kind enough to tell me.

I'm sooo not anti-religion. I'm anti-religious-bias, though (and also anti-atheist bias, incidentally). I'm sorry I look bigoted. I know that I do have prejudices, but I try to keep an eye on where I'm coming from, and where I'm going, and keep them to a minimum. I talk with people who challenge my point of view. I work very hard to treat people with respect. I also try to be honest about my opinions, and sometimes that comes off as disrespectful. Some people don't feel I am entitled to have -- or voice -- an opinion about another country. From where you stand, I will always be wrong - partly because of where I'm coming from. Even if I go abroad again, or learn Arabic, I will still be American. I know I can never learn enough to have a valid opinion in many people's eyes, and that I will always be a product of my own culture (and yes, I do have one). That won't stop me from trying to understand how things work, though.

I'm sorry if I offended you, or made you feel badly. That's not what I was trying to do.

I think I am going to start a new thread. I hope you will come and join me there, and bring your honest opinions.

Aniseteph

Anyone else seen this report - it was in the news here recently.
Perpetual Minors: Human Rights Abuses Stemming from Male Guardianship and Sex Segregation in Saudi Arabia

charity

HAH...Oh no...kiss my butt...hehe.

da Sage

There's 52 pages in that report...I don't think I'm going to get through that anytime soon. Did you read it?

KuteNurse

Who are you to think you know the ways of the world. Have you ever traveled to the States, Europe, Canada? Quite frankly, your posts are vulgar and discriminative against Americans. I have never heard you say one kind thing about anyone on these forums and your name GYPSY carries quite a reputation in the belly dance community. I have heard from more than 5 people now how you have degraded them.

Perhaps you have had a bad childhood filled with abuse with little love? Perhaps this is what happens to some women who are treated badly? They become bitter and angry at others and the world? I feel badly for you for having to live life in such a situation that makes you unhappy and makes you want to lash out at others. I am sure others would be willing to be supportive and to help you sort out your angers and problems along with myself. But remember that others who have lived such lives, are not resentful and spiteful people.

I have a right to state my opinions. I could also state the same for you Gypsy that you not know anything about the United States and the ways of Americans. As I have stated in other posts, I have no prejudism against you or other Arabic women. What I have a problem with is the way the women are being treated and by some of the laws that govern them to be treated in such a way.

I am going to ask you at this point to please do not PM me any longer. Your private letters are not well received by me unless you have something nice to say.

KuteNurse

All I can say is Unbelieveable! I really do feel badly for those women who do not have the right to say what medical procedures are right for them...Their guardian has to be the one to decide for them.

gypsy8522

Regarding the PM: I believe I only sent you ONE message, and that was almost 3 months ago, Here is what I wrote:




"I noticed your 'interest' in Islamic laws since you keep bringing up the issues about stoning of women and capital punishment. I did research as well, and I would really like to know your thoughts on this. Does God approve of capital punishment?
Since both of us speak english, there shouldn't be a misunderstanding this time due to wrong translation. I didn't want to post the link publically on the forum, knowing that it offend other members. I hope that you answer me the same way I have done. However, if you don't want to be questioned about it, that's fine with me as well.

Have a great day!

Gypsy"



I don't know what "private letters" you are referring to because that was it. If there was anything "not nice" like you claim about that PM, you would have reported me, the same way you reported me before for supposedly using "inappropriate language". When you ignored my PM, yet continued to reply to me here, I automatically got the message that you are not interested in a private discussion, so I left you alone. I am terribly sorry that your attempt to turn this topic into a Islamic/ Quran bashing session backfired on you, and instead you got all these unexpected questions about Catholicism. It is NOT my problem that you like to attack other people's religions but on the other hand do not like to be questioned about your own faith! Just a reminder***************** I have not made one single degrading comment towards anyone's religion, and I will never do that.********

Now regarding the rest of your post...... I say it is better you calm down, I doubt very much anyone cares what you have to say about me, this is just an online forum, so relax.




And to answer your question, yes, I have actually travelled across the United States, I have been to California, Michigan, West Virginia, New York, Washington DC and Florida and I have been to Europe, I visited the United Kingdom more than 8 times, I lived in the city of Lisburn in Ireland for 4 months with my extended family, I've been to Scotland, England, France, Spain, Italy, Germany, The Netherlands, The Czech republic and Hungary.


Thank you for letting me know that "GYPSY" is now a well known name in the (cyber?) bellydance community, it's an honour.





edit: I think it's "prejudice" not "prejudism", LOL, I'm not trying to act smart, but I see you've written it more than once and I went hmmm.... that doesn't look/sound right. WARNING: Not a native speaker, so there is a BIG chance I could be wrong! Any english teachers here?


This was a response to KateNurse