Amazing video about women in Saudi Arabia - Page 2

Aisha Azar · 01-24-2008, 02:13 AM

Dear Kute Nurse,
I want to open my discussion by saying that my best friend is Saudi, and has lived here in the States for about 7 years. I also know other suaid wo,en, some of whom are now living back in Saudi Arabia.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KuteNurse

Hmm...Where do I begin. There is so much I would like to say regarding an Arab woman's lifestyle. I want to say it in an non offending way, so if I come off being offensive, I apologize up front.

Thankyou Maria for sharing the video clips. I did find them to be very interesting and informative. I am amazed at the incredible English that these Saudi women speak. You can clearly tell they have had a great deal of education in the Westerner's language. It is unfortunate that all Arab countries do not have the education that Saudi Arabia has. As Moon suggested, I would liked to have seen a low-class Arab woman's day also for comparrison.

A'isha writes- Saudis of privilege have good educations, but that does not address the majority, Much of their education is or was free, but one can also pay to go to private schools.

I was under the impression that Arab women did not have such freedom's as working outside the home and such. It was nice to see that these women were able to work. I tend to guess from what I have learned that Arab women of other countries do not have the same luxuries.

A'isha writes- In the Qur'an and Hadith and Sharia, women are on an equal footing with men in their right to use their brains, get educated and hold down jobs. In fact, many Saudi women work and so do women in other Islamic countries. This occasionally puts them in a bad position, just as it does here in the States, though the pressure is often from gossip rather than from the realities of sexual harassment. I addressed this a little bit in one of the essays in my series on my website, "The women in Between". (Raqs Azar). Not only can they work, but any money they earn is their property and the husband can not touch it without her permission. She is under no obilgation to support the family with it.

Being the traditional American woman myself, so many ideas raced through my head while these women were talking, such as: the one woman said she would like to drive, but in her country she was not able to.

A. writes- This is a bone of contention with many Saudi women. In fact, during the first Gulf war Kuwaitis escaped to Saudi Arabia at the invitation of the King. Kuwaiti women do drive and they drove around with impunity in Saudi Arabia instead of respecting the laws of the land. This inspired a little rebellion among Saudui women and a bunch of them actually got out and drove around. they were arrested, but set free when their families came and no legal punishment was doled out. I also know quite a few Saudi women who own cars and drive when they are not in Saudi.
One area of contention also is, if a woman and man are not supposed to be alone together unless they are related, how come a woman can be alone in the car with her male driver?

Also, having to be covered up from head to toe in the presence of men. I simply can't help but think these women are being forced to cover up, not only by their religion, but by the traditional culture that conforms them to do so.

A.writes- Islam does NOT state that women must cover from head to toe, nor does it state that the face must be covered. The hair, yes. Even so, I know women who are perfectly happy to be covered and others who do not even believe they should have to wear hijab.

She states that she chooses to cover up. In my personal opinion, I could not imagine how uncomfortable it must be to cover up when it is 100 degrees F in the hot sun.

A. writes- Some abayas are made of the finest gossamer silk and they are considered to be appropriate and they are not hot. I own several abayas and they are all beautiful. I also own mifsah ( the face veil) and hijab and other garments from what is known in the study of clothing as "Islamic vestementary", Amazingly, they are not hot.

God did not intend for women to hide the beauty that he so lovingly gave women.

A. writes- I would not claim to speak for god or know its/his/her/their wishes.

Also, so much of language if through body language. I believe their ability to use verbal language is hidden underneath all those robes and veils. Therefore, not only is the woman to hide her body with discomfort and her language is impaired. By the looks of the way the veil covers her face, her peripheal vision can also be impaired.

A.- Not more so than an American hat, in fact sometimes less. I know this because I have worn them around to see. The fact is that women do not wear the outdoor garments in the house and their bodies are as free to speak as anyone's. All of those covering garments are like coats, not what is worn around the house.

These Saudi women do seem modern in many ways. Her use of computers and such. But their inability to drive is outrageous.

A. writes- Personally, I think American women would be a lot safer if we had drivers. As for poorer women, there is an excellent free transportation system in Saudi cities. Women are far safer on them than the buses here in the States. In fact, members of the Al-Rajhi family take that system sometimes, and they are filthy rich.

I think in these videos the women are actually fortunate compared to other Arab countries. I have heard that women have to have a male chaperone with them at all times when out in public. How do these women get their jobs done?? Being a mother and wife means having to get many things done. Grocery shopping...Imagine what it is like having to get all covered up on a day that is over 100 D F, waiting for your chaperone

A. writes- Well, for one thing, there is always someone to help carry the groceries, and smart women wait inside until the driver calls the house to say he is ready.

and ride to the grocery store or a doctor's appointment for your child. If you are not covered or have a chaperone with you, think of the consequences and the fear these women must have. To be beaten?? What if the woman was widowed and she had no family??? These are just cruel examples of Arab countries ways of life.

A. writes- Oh please, no one is beaten for being alone in public, because the law is that men and women must not be alone together unless they are related. Believe me there is hardly anyone who is Saudi that does not have vast amounts of family. Your 33rd cousin will take you in even if he does not know you, because it would be shame on his family not to.

These women say they like their way of life, but how could they?? What woman would want to be covered up, beaten if she does something wrong, not be able to drive a car???

A. writes- KuteNurse, you are buying into a fantasy.

What I think of when I see this is, if these women only knew what it was like to live a normal life where they are uncovered and they can be themselves, not have to have a chaperone while at the grocery store. To be able to drive themselves home and eat at the same table as the men. To not live in fear of being beaten. These women would NEVER want to live that way again if they knew what it was like to live freely. To me they live in their own prison.

A. writes- What is this thing with you thinking Saudi women are all being beaten? They have about the same amount of spousal abuse here as there. And, many women in that particular economic group do indeed travel and live lives in both Saudi and in the West, so they know about what we perceive as freedom, and live part of their lives that way.

Basically, these women know no other way of life. If they did, they would not allow themselves to be treated this way.

A. writes- Actually many Saudi women DO know about other lives, and many live part time in Europe or America or elsewhere, and dress in bikinis and go to parties, etc. Most have a few probelsm with their system, just as we do with ours, but most certainly do NOTconsider themselves to be abused.

Regards,
A'isha

janaki · 01-24-2008, 03:08 AM

Hi Kutenurse,

Let me tell you first it is not an attack on you. But many of us tend to DISAGREE with SOME of your opinions about Arab women.

I don't know what else to add. I agree with Gypsy, Aisha, Moon, Gisel and Maariku. They said everything I wanted to say.

When it comes to expressing views and opions about culture and religious practice, one must have a thorough knowledge and understanding. Arab culture and Islam are very ancient and powerful cultures in the world.

Let me give you an example. Before I came to Hong Kong I lived in Sydney for 20 years. I never been to HK before. Everyone I spoke to and every travel book I read, it said HK is a concrete jungle and people live in tiny appartment and they lead a a very chinese way of life and not many people speak english and it is a When I came here 9 years ago, I was taken to my new flat which is on a mountain surrounded by trees which is about 2800 sqft(reasonably big). I am only 10 minutes away from the down town. Here we have beautiful walking trails, fab islands, mountains with full of trees, beautiful beaches (although the water quality is very poor). I was shocked to see the contrast of scenary and cultures practiced by the people here. They are very very modern and yet they practice so many traditions.

I hope this sums up what I wanted to say.

I have seen women in middle eastern countires dress from very traditonal to very modern...illiterate to very educated. Like every other society they have every contrast you can imagine within their cultural and geographical definitions.

I also have a lot of admiration for these people that pay and practice so much attention to their religion and culture!!! It is a phenominal discipline.

I have yet to meet an arab person that is not pround of his/her heritage, religion and culture. They are very very proud people.

BTW, I was told by my egyptian buddies that women rule and control their households.

.

Moon,

I liked oum Kholthum's saying. It makes sense. Why you don't dressup for the man and the family you love at home and dress up when you go out. I am gonna start wearing some nice clothes at home from now onwards!!!Yippy!!!

gypsy8522 · 01-24-2008, 07:02 AM

.......there are all sorts of people living in this part of the world, rich and poor, modern and traditional, religous and secular, illiterate and educated, most importantly there isn't a unifying "cruel example way of life"... Bottom line is... Arabs and muslims are not all the same!!!! Diversity is something that applies to the entire human race. Just like everyone else, people living in Arabic countries are human beings, they are not solid lego things that come in the same shape and size! Maybe this video will help open some blinded eyes....

Middle East 2.0

Lydia dubai · 01-24-2008, 07:41 AM

I realy wish that the middle east would be closer to many people to visit ,so the understanding would be better....I live all my adult live in arab country,s ...and work here i dont want to to trade it in for any other country....yes there are hangups but so there is in other country,s ...its great to live in the uae ,i dont cover in dayli laive only in ramadan,not for myself but for the poeple around me,so they will be able to fast better....But normaly i dont and nobody tells me that i would have to...I have many nationalities in class foreigners from the west local emirati,s ...lady,s from saoudy,chinees its a great blend and mix in my clasroom....we talk freely about the religion and habbits to eachother....aswell we ask ,,are you not getting fedup with your Abaya?? surprisingly nobody ever told me ,,yes i am,,Usely they are happy going satisfied sweet lady,s,s believe it or not many times very ,,spoiled,, by husbands and family....most of them have good jobs are getting paid very well......and are just normal nice people ,just very misunderstood ......bad husbands we find everywhere in the world like good ones.....i would like to ask the people that dont understand this culture to realy serieusly look in to it and try to understand the why and how poeple live here ...i have been very lucky that i ended up here,i take all the good things from this society and am very happy to live here in this desert with great arab people,but dont forget i did my homework...!have a great day everybody

KuteNurse · 01-24-2008, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maariku

Maria, thanks for posting such educative videos. I have a lot of respect for that lady because she has decided to open up her home and life to the world with the goal to raise the awareness. Now, if you really look at it, her life isn't really much different from ours... She is raising a family, working and enjoying it, and sticking to her beliefs and values at the same time. Indeed, I do understand that we are talking about an educated and a well-off woman here, and that not all women have such advantages. But, even though I don't necessarily approve all those traditions, I try to understand that cultures differ, and changes develop gradually. It doesn't matter how hard we wish, tomorrow morning there will still be opressed women (and across the globe, may I add)... there will still be people thinking in racist terms... there will still be people who consider belly dance the same as stripping... etc. But we can work towards decreasing it, step-by-step.

Now, not to end at such an idealistic note... KuteNurse, I think the Saudi women have just recently been granted a legal right to drive. But I think the reasoning behind it was more of an economical one - they just didn't think they could afford importing any more foreign chaffeurs. Now we just have to hope the culture catches up with the legislation.

Maariku,

I believe you are right in many ways. That women are not that different and that we have the same responsibilities. I also agree that there will be opressed women where ever you go whether it be Saudi Arabia or the United States. I did not know that Saudi women have recently been allowed to drive.

I googled searches about Saudi women driving. Everything I found, states that Saudi women do not have the right to drive as of yet. Correct me if I am wrong and I did not find the correct information. Much of my searches included older information dating back to 2005. However, I did find this short statement on Saudi Arabia women driving in January 2008. It does state a women of unreported nationality, however, I would assume the law would be the same for all women of all nationalities while she is living in Saudi Arabia.

Sidelights: Woman Arrested for Practicing Driving

JEDDAH, 22 January 2008 — How long does it take for somebody to begin losing his or her ability to drive? According to one woman, a few years in Saudi Arabia is enough to begin worrying the skill will be forgotten. The daily Okaz reported yesterday that a foreign woman of unreported nationality was stopped not for a DUI (Driving Under the Influence — of alcohol or drugs) but rather for a DWW (Driving While a Woman). The woman’s excuse was that after a few years in Saudi Arabia she was worried that she would forget how to drive. The police were forgiving, though, and released her after she promosed not to drive again inside Saudi Arabia.

Maria_Aya · 01-24-2008, 08:00 AM

For me it was very interesting to watch everything about the life of these women. Its just so different of mine that make's it fascinating (but in the same way I see the life of a woman living in Peru on the mountains, want to know, dont judge but dont want to swap also).
On some of my trips at Egypt had to wear the hijab and abaya (as going to some not so safe places).
I had the most mixed feelings.
Feeling invisible and with no identity, this was the first that stroke me.
Same time because of that reason, feeling freedom.
Also feeling seperated from the rest world, which was wierd.
The theory that you dont get hot in steaming weather with abaya didnt worked for me ! I was sweating from head to toe.
Also because i have a problem with stairs (psycological most, that make me fall easy from them) imagine adding the not watching your steps because of the covering problem lol, i had to fell 2 times to learn how to walk on stairs.

Maria Aya

p.s. love the conversation going on here, lets dont make it go for the Sauna

KuteNurse · 01-24-2008, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gisela

Hi Kute Nurse, I agree with some things in your post and disagree with some others. Some of it is just my personal opinions and can be left out, but I do have some small more general comments.

Women all over the world choose to put tight skirts and high heels on which hinders movement and can even cause harm to the body. Long nails make women unable to do a lot of things. One I know had to have a friend with her to go to the bathroom because she couldn't pull her zipper down herself.

What is normal??? Why and says who???

Gisela,

Yes you have some great points and I also believe we all have our own personal comments. First, I would like to say I do not have any racism against Arab or Muslim women. The women I have met who are Arab both in the real world and on this web site are wonderful, strong and beautiful women. I also am not disagreeing with you about women wearing short skirts and heels that are bad for their feet. I personally cannot believe women do things like that to their bodies. I for one, who suffers from plantar fascitis wear shoes that have good arch support and are comfortable. I also do not wear short skirts unless you consider a modest lengthed pair of shorts comparable. At my workplace, a skirt length must reach the knees or below the knees. This rule is enforced and if you are found to have a skirt shorter, you are sent home to change. Working in the medical field, long nails are not allowed due to the bacteria that sits underneath the nailbeds. I would not want to cause more harm than good and pass bacteria onto an unsuspecting soul. Yes, I suppose we do have some interesting fashions that other countries may find to be unusual. However, I do not think wearing robes and veils have many practical uses when it comes to weather and temperatures and for verbal communication. Also, I would think it would be difficult to cook and I would be concerned by my robe starting on fire while cooking. (This may be something that takes time to learn? Such as wearing high heels during cooking as an example.)

Farasha Hanem · 01-24-2008, 08:14 AM

I'm glad to see that you are willing to listen to those who have actually lived in Saudi Arabia and other ME countries, KuteNurse. As it has been stated, looking up info on the comp is not the same as actually living it.

Why such hang-ups over women not driving? I hate driving; in fact, I myself do not drive unless it is absolutely necessary, and I don't feel oppressed. Indeed, I feel very much relieved. My driving skills are horrible, and being behind the wheel terrifies me to the point of having panic attacks. I also have a terrible sense of direction, and get lost easily at night. In my way of thinking, it's better for me not to be behind the wheel of a vehicle, where I'm a potential danger to myself and others.

No matter what country we come from, we are all the same inside; we all have needs, desires, fears, hopes, and dreams. Isn't it wonderful that we all express those things in such diverse customs and cultures?

Um, I believe the young lady in the video said she didn't wear her robes and abaya in the house...o_O;

KuteNurse · 01-24-2008, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maria_Aya

For me it was very interesting to watch everything about the life of these women. Its just so different of mine that make's it fascinating (but in the same way I see the life of a woman living in Peru on the mountains, want to know, dont judge but dont want to swap also).
On some of my trips at Egypt had to wear the hijab and abaya (as going to some not so safe places).
I had the most mixed feelings.
Feeling invisible and with no identity, this was the first that stroke me.
Same time because of that reason, feeling freedom.
Also feeling seperated from the rest world, which was wierd.
The theory that you dont get hot in steaming weather with abaya didnt worked for me ! I was sweating from head to toe.
Also because i have a problem with stairs (psycological most, that make me fall easy from them) imagine adding the not watching your steps because of the covering problem lol, i had to fell 2 times to learn how to walk on stairs.

Maria Aya

p.s. love the conversation going on here, lets dont make it go for the Sauna

Maria,

I also enjoyed watching and learning how women from other cultures act and function in everyday life. Yes, I agree with you that perhaps this is not the place to debate and I will respect your wishes. I have to admit, I was planning on replying to each and every post and I was well on my way in doing so. Let's just say this, I have my ideas and thoughts on the ways of Arab culture. Somethings I respect and other things I totally disagree with. I will also say once again, that I have absolutely NO racism against Arab women, men or children. However, I am not backing away from my opinions and if anyone would like to further debate on this topic, I would be happy to start a thread in the sauna section of this forum.

Maria_Aya · 01-24-2008, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KuteNurse

Maria,

I also enjoyed watching and learning how women from other cultures act and function in everyday life. Yes, I agree with you that perhaps this is not the place to debate and I will respect your wishes. I have to admit, I was planning on replying to each and every post and I was well on my way in doing so. Let's just say this, I have my ideas and thoughts on the ways of Arab culture. Somethings I respect and other things I totally disagree with. I will also say once again, that I have absolutely NO racism against Arab women, men or children. However, I am not backing away from my opinions and if anyone would like to further debate on this topic, I would be happy to start a thread in the sauna section of this forum.

Heyyyyyyyyy we have to speak our minds up!!
And if this thread moves to the Sauna let it be !!! go on girl xoox

01-24-2008, 08:00 AM	#16 (permalink)
Maria_Aya Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Athens, Greece Posts: 2,252	For me it was very interesting to watch everything about the life of these women. Its just so different of mine that make's it fascinating (but in the same way I see the life of a woman living in Peru on the mountains, want to know, dont judge but dont want to swap also). On some of my trips at Egypt had to wear the hijab and abaya (as going to some not so safe places). I had the most mixed feelings. Feeling invisible and with no identity, this was the first that stroke me. Same time because of that reason, feeling freedom. Also feeling seperated from the rest world, which was wierd. The theory that you dont get hot in steaming weather with abaya didnt worked for me ! I was sweating from head to toe. Also because i have a problem with stairs (psycological most, that make me fall easy from them) imagine adding the not watching your steps because of the covering problem lol, i had to fell 2 times to learn how to walk on stairs. Maria Aya p.s. love the conversation going on here, lets dont make it go for the Sauna __________________ ... www.orientalexpression.gr

01-24-2008, 03:08 AM	#12 (permalink)
janaki V.I.P. Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: hong kong Posts: 1,211	Hi Kutenurse, Let me tell you first it is not an attack on you. But many of us tend to DISAGREE with SOME of your opinions about Arab women. I don't know what else to add. I agree with Gypsy, Aisha, Moon, Gisel and Maariku. They said everything I wanted to say. When it comes to expressing views and opions about culture and religious practice, one must have a thorough knowledge and understanding. Arab culture and Islam are very ancient and powerful cultures in the world. Let me give you an example. Before I came to Hong Kong I lived in Sydney for 20 years. I never been to HK before. Everyone I spoke to and every travel book I read, it said HK is a concrete jungle and people live in tiny appartment and they lead a a very chinese way of life and not many people speak english and it is a When I came here 9 years ago, I was taken to my new flat which is on a mountain surrounded by trees which is about 2800 sqft(reasonably big). I am only 10 minutes away from the down town. Here we have beautiful walking trails, fab islands, mountains with full of trees, beautiful beaches (although the water quality is very poor). I was shocked to see the contrast of scenary and cultures practiced by the people here. They are very very modern and yet they practice so many traditions. I hope this sums up what I wanted to say. I have seen women in middle eastern countires dress from very traditonal to very modern...illiterate to very educated. Like every other society they have every contrast you can imagine within their cultural and geographical definitions. I also have a lot of admiration for these people that pay and practice so much attention to their religion and culture!!! It is a phenominal discipline. I have yet to meet an arab person that is not pround of his/her heritage, religion and culture. They are very very proud people. BTW, I was told by my egyptian buddies that women rule and control their households. . Moon, I liked oum Kholthum's saying. It makes sense. Why you don't dressup for the man and the family you love at home and dress up when you go out. I am gonna start wearing some nice clothes at home from now onwards!!!Yippy!!!

01-24-2008, 07:02 AM	#13 (permalink)
gypsy8522 Moderator Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 567	.......there are all sorts of people living in this part of the world, rich and poor, modern and traditional, religous and secular, illiterate and educated, most importantly there isn't a unifying "cruel example way of life"... Bottom line is... Arabs and muslims are not all the same!!!! Diversity is something that applies to the entire human race. Just like everyone else, people living in Arabic countries are human beings, they are not solid lego things that come in the same shape and size! Maybe this video will help open some blinded eyes.... Middle East 2.0

01-24-2008, 07:41 AM	#14 (permalink)
Lydia dubai V.I.P. Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Dubai United arab emirates Posts: 1,351	I realy wish that the middle east would be closer to many people to visit ,so the understanding would be better....I live all my adult live in arab country,s ...and work here i dont want to to trade it in for any other country....yes there are hangups but so there is in other country,s ...its great to live in the uae ,i dont cover in dayli laive only in ramadan,not for myself but for the poeple around me,so they will be able to fast better....But normaly i dont and nobody tells me that i would have to...I have many nationalities in class foreigners from the west local emirati,s ...lady,s from saoudy,chinees its a great blend and mix in my clasroom....we talk freely about the religion and habbits to eachother....aswell we ask ,,are you not getting fedup with your Abaya?? surprisingly nobody ever told me ,,yes i am,,Usely they are happy going satisfied sweet lady,s,s believe it or not many times very ,,spoiled,, by husbands and family....most of them have good jobs are getting paid very well......and are just normal nice people ,just very misunderstood ......bad husbands we find everywhere in the world like good ones.....i would like to ask the people that dont understand this culture to realy serieusly look in to it and try to understand the why and how poeple live here ...i have been very lucky that i ended up here,i take all the good things from this society and am very happy to live here in this desert with great arab people,but dont forget i did my homework...!have a great day everybody

01-24-2008, 08:14 AM	#18 (permalink)
Farasha Hanem Moderator Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: In the heartland of the USA Posts: 615	I'm glad to see that you are willing to listen to those who have actually lived in Saudi Arabia and other ME countries, KuteNurse. As it has been stated, looking up info on the comp is not the same as actually living it. Why such hang-ups over women not driving? I hate driving; in fact, I myself do not drive unless it is absolutely necessary, and I don't feel oppressed. Indeed, I feel very much relieved. My driving skills are horrible, and being behind the wheel terrifies me to the point of having panic attacks. I also have a terrible sense of direction, and get lost easily at night. In my way of thinking, it's better for me not to be behind the wheel of a vehicle, where I'm a potential danger to myself and others. No matter what country we come from, we are all the same inside; we all have needs, desires, fears, hopes, and dreams. Isn't it wonderful that we all express those things in such diverse customs and cultures? Um, I believe the young lady in the video said she didn't wear her robes and abaya in the house...o_O;