sedoniaraqs

Kutenurse, look past your courthouse to the big picture. If you think that our government's foreign policies on, oh, I don't know, **ISRAEL** are not influenced heavily by Judeo-Christian dogma and the mythology in Revelations, think again.

If Christian beliefs really had no hold on schools, there would not be warning stickers in science books regarding evolution, astronomy, and other scientific theory that contradicts religion, and young people would not be denied learning about the basic biology of their reproductive systems, just as they learn about their circulatory systems, digestive systems, etc.

If Christian beliefs had no influence over local governments, there would not be special laws regulating/banning the sale of alcohol on Sundays.

Also, regarding the placement of the 10 commandments in government buildings, you seem confused as to why the court ruled in favor of the US constitution over the popular vote of your town. Please refer to a basic textbook on US Civics/Government. The constitution cannot be line-item vetoed on a local basis.

Sedonia

Mosaic

Thanks KuteNurse, I actually saw something about the 10 commandments thing on Fox news last year I think it was.

My comments about religion and politics in USA, is because what I have heard and currently hear in particular in regard to the republican party they introduce religion in some way over and over. The democrats don't seem to do this and focus more on the issues that government should focus on. But I don't live in America, and go by what I hear on Fox and CNN news ... also my friends, one lives in OK the other in FL.

Thanks for the correction on schools in USA, Is that for all schools or do some States tend to have or try to have a religious component. I am not saying it is a bad thing, but do think that it should be an optional choice to do or not do.

Here in Australia, unless the school is a designated religion affliated school, religion doesn't come into the education system, because children of various religions may be attending that school. State schools are zoned which means if you live in a designated area your child has to attend that school unless you pay for private school. Basically religion is kept out of schools. Some have a voluntary religious instruction class, but parents must sign up to have the kids attend and it is non denominational and basic bible studies I believe. Most schools have cut those studies because there wasn't enough students attending. The belief here and use to be the same in NZ
(not sure now in NZ, but think it would be the same) that religion is for churchs/synagoges/temples/mosques etc, education for schools and politics for governments. The Catholic schools do have religious instruction daily I believe, but if you send your child to a catholic school then you expect that, they are semi-private.

My son goes to a private school, which has children from every religion imaginable and the non religious, they all work together in total peace and harmony, accepting each other without reservation. We have young boys wearing the Sikh turban wrap, girls in Hijab, kids from China, Korea, India, Pakistan, Various other Asian countries, Middle Eastern countries, and Aussies. By keeping religion or non religion out of the school, but also allowing those who have religious needs to quietly attend to that (such as Muslims have their prayer time) there is no conflict at all and total acceptance and interest in children of other cultures.

Probably USA has schools like that as well. But what I am trying to say and probably not getting it across too well, is that there does seem to be a lot of Christianity in schools and this becomes a strong part of everyday culture to the extent that there seems to be a (minority) section of society that believes wholeheartedly in the biblical creation myth.

I believe that children can easily be raised with high end morals etc without religion in their everyday, outside the home. Religious beliefs should be taught by the parents and religious bodies, that conform to the families own beliefs. Don't you agree that this is the best approach? Each person approaches religion and can view/interpret it differently even if you follow the same faith, so what you as a parent may believe/teach, a school or outside community (other than religious) may teach things differently and that to my mind would be confusing for children.

I don't mind at all being corrected and am very open to being told that what I have seen/heard is different
Peace be upon you
~Mosaic

Mosaic

LOL hope I haven't started a war But to be honest, much of what Sedoniaraqs has said is what I have come to understand via my close friends in OK & FL. It is likely that people do have differing views on the importance/non importance of such issues.

But honesty in education is so important for the mental growth of a child. What is taught and how it is taught should not be influenced by (often) narrow minded religious thought. Biology and science cannot be tainted by purity religious issues, how on earth do college teens fare when they get to Uni? WOW! Must be a bit of a shock.

I have not seen one child harmed here in this part of the world by open and honest debate and teaching, actually they all grow into very well balanced young men and women, and are able to judge for themselves what they believe or disbelieve.

OK That is enough from me, before someone growls at me.

Salome

I really value the fact that religion is not part of the public school system. I could not possible begin to share how adamently I would not want my child exposed to Christianity as part of their public school experience.

Is this a recent development? Because I went to public school and we had had sex ed etc. and there was never any warning stickers in our science books.

karena

Over here I think I would have a similar impression to Mosaic. What's all the stuff about creationism being taught in schools in America we hear about? Is that not true? There are 'academy' schools being set up here, which can be run by people other than the state, with state funding, and there was much controversy over american religious groups running them, so maybe the creationism in school was just some discourse running at the time in that context. But I'm sure that's what I've heard, and in the respected media too.

(Just to clarify, as we are in the sauna , I'm not suggesting it is true, just wanting to get some clarification from people who live there)

__________________
"Nothing is black and white, it's all shades of grey" Me

gisela

But do you not study religion at all in school? I mean not as a religious study but as part of the basic social studies. Learning about all the big religions equally can't be offensive can it? Isn't that part of being a world citizen to know and understand each others religions and how they began? Even if you don't beleive?

Warning stickers????!!!!

__________________
You need chaos in your soul to create a dancing star-nietzsche

Mosaic

As a subject "comparative religions" are a choice in uni. religion of a region or peoples is taught, as in - such and such a people practice such and such a religion or belief system, and it entails blah, blah. Basic stuff but not as in preaching. Tolerance of other faiths is also taught, as is tolerance of another's politics, or belief in myth or what some may consider strange practices. It would all fall under the social science heading

I was told that warning stickers are in some text books because some people may consider some knowledge contained within as being offensive or even blasphemous. I am not sure how a student would avoid reading such things if it was part of the curriculum. Do parents tear those pages out or what. I have no idea, it all seems very strange to me. But I suppose it boils down to "each their own". I for one encourage my son to have as much knowledge in all subjects and worldly affairs as he can absorb, and to be accepting and tolerant of all things. I will answer any and all questions he throws at me, and if I don't have an answer I make sure I find out for myself and let him know He is a well rounded, caring, bright, knowledgeable 13-1/2 year old.

His education started from birth, he was born in a Muslim country, and shred the celebrations of that religion with us, we also shared our celebrations with our Muslim friends. David went to International schools in Indonesia and Thailand, spoke Indonesian and Thai, ( kids pick up languages so easy - I struggled especially with Thai). The international schools encouraged the sharing of cultural knowledge and celebrated the various cultures of the children attending the schools. On our return to Aussie we placed him in an independent school (private) that has and international open door policy. Kids from backgrounds from all over the world attend his school, many are australian born here of parents from diverse cultures, and many come into the school for the final 2 to 3 years of secondary to enable them to sit the local university entrance exams.

David is very fortunate, that he has had this multicultural life due to his dad working with overseas companies. We have traveled to many places, so his exposure has given him a very open, accepting and broad view of the world.

I also believe a child's parents are the ones who enable a child to embrace life fully, to be accepting and tolerant and to also understand the world is not always a bed of roses, but it is better to extend one's hand in friendship and respect for another than to pull a gun so to speak. IMO I think a child has the right of choice, if he/she is given knowledge, general, historical, cultural etc and knowledge in belief systems. They will make the right choices for themselves later in life. They don't have to follow in a parents "footsteps". Your footsteps may not suit them at all and they should not be 'forced' into whatever a parent may believe. That is how I have raised my 4 children. The 3 eldest are stable sensible caring and tolerant adults, none are religious, that is their own choice. They have beliefs, 2 believe their is a God/superpower, one is unsure, and the youngest is still learning about life in general

Goodness! How did I get onto that.... I talk too much LOL!

Brea

Hi all,

Let me first state that I am a Christian, and an American Christian. However, I am a strange Christian. I am a skeptic, I think of even Christianity as something to take with a grain of salt. I tend to look with the hairy eyeball at pretty much everything. I think I'm mainly a Christian because I think Jesus was cool. That's about it. I get in more arguments with Christians than anyone else, do not attend church, am extraordinarily far left in my politics, and have a somewhat secret hope that fairies are real.

I don't like what the world has made of Christianity and Islam. I am reminded of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: '...and two thousand years after a guy said how nice it would be to go around and be nice to one another all the time got nailed to a tree for his efforts...'

How is this person used now as an excuse for war and crusade? That said, I actually agree with sedoniaraqs...even as a Christian. I understand what she is saying.

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www.breamorgiane.com

Mosaic

LOL Brea ... a gal after my own heart, I too have a secret hope that fairies are real (actually they are you know) - and what would the world be without Santa Claus - he doesn't care what your religion is or isn't, he was another cool guy wandering around giving out gifts to anyone in need, and they weren't expensive things either, just something simple to brighten a small life.

As for Jesus being a nice guy, yes I agree, he had a big heart and wanted the best for everyone - and paid for it with his life. A sad indictment on humanity ..... and it continues today, people are, for some reason afraid to embrace each other, accept with love the differences that make us who and what we are, that cool guy must sit up there (wherever there is) and shake his head and probably mutters, it was all for nothing cause they just never learn! Now if it was me, I would stomp my way out of those heavenly realms, back down to this planet and bash a few heads together! probably call these humans idiots and a few more choice words and pop back home! ( thus said, I wouldn't make a very good Jesus would I)

Oh and we need the fae folk to come back into our lives they make the world a happy magical place Humans one and all .. get minds into gear and believe! I think the fae folk left us in disgust when intolerant humans began to take their name and use it in derision for those who challenged what at the time was perceived as the norm! Humans are very strange creatures, they are spooked big time by what to an individuals (or a cultural collective mindset) does not follow boring conformity, so derision is used to scare away the bogeyman/woman or fisticuffs used which lead to war to beat the hell out of those who don't follow another's way of thinking. No wonder faeries, Santa, and all other good guys and gals took off for more peaceful and loving realms.
~Mosaic

KuteNurse

Sedonia,

I was looking past the "Courthouse". I was just giving Mosaic an example of a real life situation to help her to understand. And I think she was grateful that I did

I am grateful that we have intelligent scientists to give us the information they have because I am a nurse and it has helped our my profession and anyone in the medical profession. I also enjoy watching specials on the history channel about evolution and such. Just because you are a Christian, does not mean you do not have other believes

Also, I was not confused about why the government took the ten commandments away. I was upset that they did was all. They now stand proudly in front of a church in my town and I can read them as I pass by. It really was not a big deal, just an example

Have a great day!