Amazing video about women in Saudi Arabia - Page 12

KuteNurse · 02-12-2008, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KuteNurse

I have to agree with Sultan. I saw a documentary on Arab women and I do not specifically remember which country/countries it was regarding. So forgive me if some of the information is incorrect. In the documentary, a female doctor was not allowed to perform any examinations or procedures on a the male species. She was only allowed to treat female patients. I believe it was vice versa also. An Arab man could not perform examinations or procedures on a female patient. I will do more research on this topic later tonight and see what I can come up with.

Something else to add and I will look up the information in a minute. At the Minneapolis/St. Paul airport, Arab men of a certain country that I do not remember, refused women to let them through security or to search their baggage. The security women actually had to leave their stations and let men the security men take over their jobs. Now I have to ask you, why is this ok for an Arab man to act like this in the United States, while in other countries such as Saudi Arabia, American military women have to wear gowns and veils while in their country? On this note, I have realized I am debating again, so I will move this debate to the sauna if anyone is interested. Sorry Salome

Aisha Azar · 02-12-2008, 11:14 PM

Dear Sultan,

Quote:

Originally Posted by sultan

Hi A'isha,

This is not what my Iranian friend told me. A female medic will not work on a male unless it is an absolute emergency. But perhaps his experience is so because he and his family are provincials and their lives are not impacted by the more modern urban sensibilities.

A. writes- Are you talking about Saudi Arabia here? I am not familir with medical procedure in iran, but I know that in Saudi this is not true.

As for social gatherings, the idea that men cannot attend women's football matches is utterly abhorrent to a former coach such as myself. My friend told me at one time that he would not respect anyone young lady who travelled with a coach who was not her father. In reply I told him, in my culture as far as anyone is concerned, the coach treats his players as if they are his daughters and there is mutual respect at all times. My players used to call me ''Little Daddy'' because of the way I treated them. And as far as I am concerned, that's the way it is supposed to be.

A. writes- What womens' football gatherings are those? In Saudi Arabia?

Again, I am open minded enough to allow other cultures to practice the lifestyles they choose for themselves. Just as I respect them I expect them to respect me and my choices.

Dear Kutenurse,
To my knowledge, Female soldiers are not made to dress in anything but their uniforms, no matter where they are stations. If they go out of the compounds they usually live on, say to a mall in Riyadh, then they will more than likely be asked to follow the rules of dress for women, just as we ask people to follow the rules of dress for women here. For example, neither I nor a Saudi woman visiting the United States would be allowed in the mall dressed in pasties and G-string. Our rules may appear to you to be less stringent than their's but there are rules to follow no matter what country you are visiting, and it is only polite to follow the law of the land.
I know nothing abut the incident in the St. Paul/Minneapolis airport and can not comment. It is apparently okay for Arab men or anyone else to act like that if the people in charge let them. If they were made to allow the women to look through their things or give up their baggage, then they would have allowed it in a hurry. Put the responsibility where it belongs.
This is already IN the sauna.
Regards,
A'isha

sedoniaraqs · 02-13-2008, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dipali

Religions, ALL of them, have been invented by HUMANS.

Lordy, Dipali, you are like a cold drink of water in the desert.

God in all his/her/their manifestations are pure fantasy, and if we as a species don't come to our senses and reject it *all*, we are going to cause our own extinction.

As Sam Harris says, we are killing each other over ancient literature. And not very good literature at that.

God is Imaginary - 50 simple proofs

TribalDancer · 02-13-2008, 05:17 PM

Sedonia,
I am gonna have to just give a mild moderator's warning here. Claiming that all faiths are "pure fantasy" is an incredibly insensitive statement and could be offensive to a large swath of the populace. It may be your opinion, but a gentler way of expressing YOUR OPINION, rather than bluntly statedas if it were fact, would be better suited to the tone of our community here. Please be respectful of everyone, both those with and without faith.

sedoniaraqs · 02-13-2008, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TribalDancer

Sedonia,
I am gonna have to just give a mild moderator's warning here. Claiming that all faiths are "pure fantasy" is an incredibly insensitive statement and could be offensive to a large swath of the populace. It may be your opinion, but a gentler way of expressing YOUR OPINION, rather than bluntly statedas if it were fact, would be better suited to the tone of our community here. Please be respectful of everyone, both those with and without faith.

First of all, TribalDancer, why are you calling me out but not Dipali, when her statement was every bit as blunt as mine? In the context used, "invention" is the same as "fantasy".

Second of all, if others are tossing back and forth about what the Bible vs. the Koran say, why is it off limits to bring up the simple observation that there is absolutely no rational reason to believe in *either* of them?

Faith is not rational; this is not my opinion, it is the definition of faith, and people of faith need to either have the courage to face up to such a statement, or dump their faith.

Third, for the record, I respect people but not religion. Thus I can have respect for religious people independently of their faith. In fact, I am strongly of the *opinion* that religious people who are good people are good despite their religion, not because of their religion.

Fourth, religious tolerance, IMO, facilitates and enables religious violence, as long as talking about why we even have irrational faith-based belief system is completely off limits.

So fine, I'll shut up so all the Jews and Christians and Muslims can continue to fight, rationalize about how their hate and violence-filled holy books are supposed to be interpreted, exchange insults, chop off each others' heads, blow each others babies up, and eventually nuke us all off the planet.

Amen.

Aisha Azar · 02-13-2008, 06:11 PM

Dear Members,
I support Sedonia's right to express her opinion about religion, just as others have done so here.
Regards,
A'isha

Moon · 02-13-2008, 06:18 PM

Reputation to Tribal dancer.

I personally believe that believing god is fantasy is also a form of believing.

sedoniaraqs · 02-13-2008, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moon

Reputation to Tribal dancer.

I personally believe that believing god is fantasy is also a form of believing.

Well, Moon, you certainly have every right to believe this and to say it here on this forum (and just for the record, if anyone tries to says otherwise I will *NOT* be giving *them* rep), but that doesn't make it a rational statement.

If you think that a lack of belief in something for which there is no proof or logic is in itself a "belief", then everything must be a belief and there must be no "facts". Perhaps we are all living in the matrix.

By the same reasoning, all of these statements are only beliefs, not facts:

The moon is made out of rocks and not green cheese.
The earth is round, not flat.
Matter is composed of atoms.
If I jump off a tall building, I will fall to the ground, injuring or killing myself.
The sun will set in the west today.
If I drink a fifth of whiskey in one sitting, I will become inebriated.
Epilepsy is caused by brain abnormalities, not demonic possession.

If you choose to view the world this way, fine. It is only my humble suggestion that you apply the standards consistently.

belly_dancer · 02-14-2008, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TribalDancer

Sedonia,
I am gonna have to just give a mild moderator's warning here. Claiming that all faiths are "pure fantasy" is an incredibly insensitive statement and could be offensive to a large swath of the populace. It may be your opinion, but a gentler way of expressing YOUR OPINION, rather than bluntly statedas if it were fact, would be better suited to the tone of our community here. Please be respectful of everyone, both those with and without faith.

WHOA!!!! ever read "the Emperor's New Clothes"??? it could ALL just be opinion.... who are you/we to say???? how was she insensitive?? she was just stating her "opinion" as were others.... just because other's "opinion's" are the "popular" ones NOW does not mean they are correct (or incorrect for that matter, as that is NOT my point)..
in fact my POINT is we should NOT shut somebody down because they bring up something against the "popular" way of thinking!!!

ooh.. gotta go look at the sunset.... that is one huge aspect of "god" or "religion" or whatever (FOR ME!!) ... that we are ALIVE in this moment, to experience the beauty of it all...
peace

Aisha Azar · 02-14-2008, 02:18 AM

Dear Belly_dancer,
On my way to give you Rep for clear thinking and your egalitarian approach to this subject.
With respect and high regard,
A'isha

02-13-2008, 06:11 PM	#116 (permalink)
Aisha Azar V.I.P. Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Pacific Northwest USA Posts: 4,518	Faith, etc. Dear Members, I support Sedonia's right to express her opinion about religion, just as others have done so here. Regards, A'isha Last edited by Aisha Azar; 02-13-2008 at 06:20 PM.

02-14-2008, 02:18 AM	#120 (permalink)
Aisha Azar V.I.P. Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Pacific Northwest USA Posts: 4,518	Saudi, etc. Dear Belly_dancer, On my way to give you Rep for clear thinking and your egalitarian approach to this subject. With respect and high regard, A'isha

02-13-2008, 05:17 PM	#114 (permalink)
TribalDancer Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 313	Sedonia, I am gonna have to just give a mild moderator's warning here. Claiming that all faiths are "pure fantasy" is an incredibly insensitive statement and could be offensive to a large swath of the populace. It may be your opinion, but a gentler way of expressing YOUR OPINION, rather than bluntly statedas if it were fact, would be better suited to the tone of our community here. Please be respectful of everyone, both those with and without faith.

02-13-2008, 06:18 PM	#117 (permalink)
Moon V.I.P. Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: the Netherlands Posts: 3,642	Reputation to Tribal dancer. I personally believe that believing god is fantasy is also a form of believing.