Amazing video about women in Saudi Arabia - Page 10

gypsy8522 · 02-07-2008, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midoria

Are you Egyptian? Or were you taught certain Arabic words by Egyptians?

Yes I am. The "g" is a bad habit, it's not easy to get rid of it.

Aisha Azar · 02-07-2008, 02:05 PM

Dear Midoria,
My Saudi friend said that yes, Egyptians do use the word "Hijab". I forgot to ask her about the G or J sound, and I apologize for that.
Regards,
A'isha

da Sage · 02-07-2008, 07:02 PM

I also would like to thank everyone on this thread for being honest in their responses, and working to increase cultural understanding. I hope we can all be receptive to new ideas in the future, and be patient and forgiving of each other, even if we are hurt by other people's assumptions about our cultures or characters.

p.s. Ranya, it would take much more than a suggestion that we soak in the Sauna to make me hate you!

p.p.s. If anyone wants my (outsider's) opinion on Minnesotan culture, I have plenty! But that didn't seem on-topic to this thread.

KuteNurse · 02-07-2008, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gypsy8522

Janaki,

I remember watching Oprah's episode about violence against women, where she had talked about one of her old interviews with actress Robin Givens. It was mentioned the statistics about domestic violence in America. I posted that RG link as a reference, and this was recorded from one of the major American TV networks. I did not post a poor quality, stolen homemade video that contained content offensive in nature and wrong captions, as it is the case with the video of the Iraqi woman. I have tried to make my posts on this thread as educational as possible. Personally, when I don't know something, I like to keep my mouth shut. There is nothing I hate more than disinforming others, if anyone did the same to me (fed me fantasy) I won't be happy either. I agree with you that culture and religion are sensitive issues, and in order to discuss this one should at least have a good amount of knowledge about the culture represented and/or factual information based on experience to share with others. Culture is not something we can learn about from the news, if we were discussing world politics now that would be a different story.

Gypsy,

Although Oprah Winfrey is considered a reputable talk show host, she is just that. A talk show host who's job is to entertain her audience to get good ratings. Robin Givens was a pre-med student who quit school to go into acting. While both of them are entertainers, I do not think material from their show should be taken as educational material. If specialists from the medical profession, such as a doctor of medicine who works with abused patients talked on her show, I would be more inclined to believe the information. As I stated in an above post, statistics are just that. How accurate the statistics are, no one really knows.

I did post accurate and current links regarding Iranian women being stoned written by reputable reporters. Perhaps I posted a poor quality video, however, the written documentation I have seen written in the Muslim kuran does not lie about Muslim men's views on how they treat women. For example:

Tabari IX:113 "Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur'an."

Qur'an 4:43 "Believers, approach not prayers with a mind befogged or intoxicated until you understand what you utter. Nor when you are polluted, until after you have bathed. If you are ill, or on a journey, or come from answering the call of nature, or you have touched a woman, and you find no water, then take for yourselves clean dirt, and rub your faces and hands. Lo! Allah is Benign, Forgiving." [The Qur'an claims women are unclean and polluted - worse than dirt.]

Bukhari:V4B55N547 "The Prophet said, 'But for the Israelis, meat would not decay, and if it were not for Eve, wives would never betray their husbands.'"

I do see weaknesses in your education material you tried posting such as: Using a talk show host as a reputable source for domestic violence. Also, your comparison of capital punishment of a woman being stoned to death in Iran vs. the United States use of death penalty for murderers. Also, I am not certain how you can tie solitary confinement into the same category as capital punishment. I personally see that you also do not know much of the ways of the world of outside of the middle east and you have much to learn as we all do...including myself. I could also say you are prejudice against Americans for making statements you have said and I can also say you are misinformed in American ways.

However, I am above all that and I would not call someone those names because I know this is hurtful and demeaning to them. I believe name-calling is a violation of this forum and perhaps it should be taken to a higher level of authority. I do not believe I have to take this abuse and disrespect from another human being. I have yet to hear a public apology for your disregard for my feelings. Once again, I will apologize if I have used incorrect information and if I have offended you or other forum members in this or other posts.

KuteNurse · 02-07-2008, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by da Sage

I also would like to thank everyone on this thread for being honest in their responses, and working to increase cultural understanding. I hope we can all be receptive to new ideas in the future, and be patient and forgiving of each other, even if we are hurt by other people's assumptions about our cultures or characters.

p.s. Ranya, it would take much more than a suggestion that we soak in the Sauna to make me hate you!

p.p.s. If anyone wants my (outsider's) opinion on Minnesotan culture, I have plenty! But that didn't seem on-topic to this thread.

Ditto,

There are really some incredible and knowledgeable people here bringing so much to this thread. Instead of the sauna, how about we warm up in the hottub...It is freezing! lol I also know about Minnesota culture and my son has a Minnesota History class right now...lol He has the book to prove it! Too funny.

I hope everyone has a great night.

Aisha Azar · 02-08-2008, 01:47 AM

Dear Kutenurse,
I know this is addressed to Gypsy and I will leave most of it alone, but I just wanted to point out that I am the one who said that about solitary confinement, not gypsy. I do stand by it as I did a paper on the injustices and abuses in the prison system in college and this was a huge issue. Anyway, below.

Perhaps I posted a poor quality video, however, the written documentation I have seen written in the Muslim kuran does not lie about Muslim men's views on how they treat women. For example:

Tabari IX:113 "Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and
clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur'an."

A. writes- Taken in context to the times, when women were indeed mostly treated like cattle throughout the world, this is a step up , believe me. The Prophet Mohamed ( Peace be on him) was the first man in the monotheistic religions to admit that women had rights at all, and he saw to it that they were given inheritance rights, the right to an equal education with men, the right to own their own businesses and keep their own money, and much more.
In the U.S, just a little over a hundred years ago, men could vie for the right to control the property of a woman whose husband has died.... even if they were not related to her!!

Qur'an 4:43 "Believers, approach not prayers with a mind befogged or intoxicated until you understand what you utter. Nor when you are polluted, until after you have bathed. If you are ill, or on a journey, or come from answering the call of nature, or you have touched a woman, and you find no water, then take for yourselves clean dirt, and rub your faces and hands. Lo! Allah is Benign, Forgiving." [The Qur'an claims women are unclean and polluted - worse than dirt.]

A. writes- Actually that line just means if you have had sex with a woman, you should clean up before prayer. The Bible, by the way, says the same thing. I should also add here that women are constantly being referred to as "unclean" in the Bible when they are having their periods. Also, in one Jewish prayer, men thank God that they are not women. Monotheistic, patriarchal religions do have that mindset. If you really want to get sickened, I challenge you to go online and Google "Christian Domestic Discipline".

Bukhari:V4B55N547 "The Prophet said, 'But for the Israelis, meat would not decay, and if it were not for Eve, wives would never betray their husbands.'"

A. writes- This line is suspect because there were no "Israelis" during the time the Qur'an was being written.

I do see weaknesses in your education material you tried posting such as: Using a talk show host as a reputable source for domestic violence. Also, your comparison of capital punishment of a woman being stoned to death in Iran vs. the United States use of death penalty for murderers. Also, I am not certain how you can tie solitary confinement into the same category as capital punishment.

A. writes- Think about the men who sit in solitary confinement on death row and see if you do not think that is as cruel and unusual as beheading, or electrocution, or hanging. I certainly do. I am the one who brought that up, not Gypsy.

I personally see that you also do not know much of the ways of the world of outside of the middle east and you have much to learn as we all do...including myself. I could also say you are prejudice against Americans for making statements you have said and I can also say you are misinformed in American ways.

A. writes- Well, I said that and I am American.....

Regards,
A'isha

gypsy8522 · 02-08-2008, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A'isha Azar

Dear Kutenurse,
I know this is addressed to Gypsy and I will leave most of it alone, but I just wanted to point out that I am the one who said that about solitary confinement, not gypsy.

G: A'isha, I believe this was "mistakingly" addressed to me, as you were the one who said most of those things. But, it's okay. If "arabic countries" Iran, Afghanistan, Iraq and Saudi Arabia all got boxed into the same thing, I don't see why you and I can't be the same person, using different names

I do stand by it as I did a paper on the injustices and abuses in the prison system in college and this was a huge issue. Anyway, below.

Perhaps I posted a poor quality video, however, the written documentation I have seen written in the Muslim kuran does not lie about Muslim men's views on how they treat women. For example:

Tabari IX:113 "Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and
clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur'an."

G:Yes, Islam is opressive to women... Is this why the female converts to Islam in the West outnumber the males?

A. writes- Taken in context to the times, when women were indeed mostly treated like cattle throughout the world, this is a step up , believe me. The Prophet Mohamed ( Peace be on him) was the first man in the monotheistic religions to admit that women had rights at all, and he saw to it that they were given inheritance rights, the right to an equal education with men, the right to own their own businesses and keep their own money, and much more.
In the U.S, just a little over a hundred years ago, men could vie for the right to control the property of a woman whose husband has died.... even if they were not related to her!!

G:What A'isha said

Qur'an 4:43 "Believers, approach not prayers with a mind befogged or intoxicated until you understand what you utter. Nor when you are polluted, until after you have bathed. If you are ill, or on a journey, or come from answering the call of nature, or you have touched a woman, and you find no water, then take for yourselves clean dirt, and rub your faces and hands. Lo! Allah is Benign, Forgiving." [The Qur'an claims women are unclean and polluted - worse than dirt.]

A. writes- Actually that line just means if you have had sex with a woman, you should clean up before prayer. The Bible, by the way, says the same thing. I should also add here that women are constantly being referred to as "unclean" in the Bible when they are having their periods. Also, in one Jewish prayer, men thank God that they are not women. Monotheistic, patriarchal religions do have that mindset. If you really want to get sickened, I challenge you to go online and Google "Christian Domestic Discipline".

G:Muslims perform Wodu, which means washing one's face, hands and feet before prayer. In the desert where water is scarce or not available, a person could use clean sand instead to rub the face and hands. Therefore, no, it does not mean that women are "worse than dirt".

It could be the fact that you don't understand arabic, the original language which the Qur'an was written in, so you just went ahead and quoted words translated through someone else's mindset and misinterpreted it. However, in this case, even literally the translation is considered wrong and out of context.

Bukhari:V4B55N547 "The Prophet said, 'But for the Israelis, meat would not decay, and if it were not for Eve, wives would never betray their husbands.'"

A. writes- This line is suspect because there were no "Israelis" during the time the Qur'an was being written.

G: This tops the "Iraqi beats woman for not covering face" video caption.

I think what is meant here is the Children of Israel. It could be that the person who did this english Qura'anic translation was an Egyptian shop owner?!?!

I do see weaknesses in your education material you tried posting such as: Using a talk show host as a reputable source for domestic violence. Also, your comparison of capital punishment of a woman being stoned to death in Iran vs. the United States use of death penalty for murderers. Also, I am not certain how you can tie solitary confinement into the same category as capital punishment.

A. writes- Think about the men who sit in solitary confinement on death row and see if you do not think that is as cruel and unusual as beheading, or electrocution, or hanging. I certainly do. I am the one who brought that up, not Gypsy.

G: Thank you!

I personally see that you also do not know much of the ways of the world of outside of the middle east and you have much to learn as we all do...including myself. I could also say you are prejudice against Americans for making statements you have said and I can also say you are misinformed in American ways.

A. writes- Well, I said that and I am American.....

G: A'isha, it would appear that you too are misinformed in American ways.

Regards,
A'isha

Katenurse,

If you bothered to click on the link I provided (the same way I actually took time to watch the "interesting" video you posted) you would know that the statistics about domestic violence shown in the clip was from a news program on abc, not Oprah. Either way, you missed my point. It was not much about the statistics as much as it was to show the source of these statistics: it came from American news media, not a foreign one.

And to end this post, I would like to thank our islamic culture for giving us Egyptians, Syrians, Saudi Arabians, Moroccans and the rest of the Arab world our history, traditions and this rich heritage..... the heritage that people from all over the world like to spend so much time discussing on this forum.

Dipali · 02-08-2008, 11:16 AM

Hello everybody

I have a few words to say about this debate. I apologise beforehand if i am going to hurt anyone with certain beliefs, but i stand to what i say and this is indeed a Belly forum and not the religious section, so here it goes.

Religions, ALL of them, have been invented by HUMANS. When Cro-Magnon man saw things he could not explain with his knowledge, in search for an answer he invented god. Many gods, in fact - rock god, tree god, water godetc. And since any of those could kill him, he started to worship them out of fear. NOT being killed by a falling tree was considered a success in praying to the tree god. As simple as that.
As evolution went on, man grew more knowledge - and more gods. And as man became more knowing, he invented things to catch food. Weapons. And the same time, man became lazy. So why go to hunt when he could use the hunting weapons to steal the food from someone who had already hunted with success? WAR was invented. And with war came "my gods - your gods". And the winning party's gods must be stronger than the losing party's, so more people started following those "strong gods".

Many moons later certain people started to rebel against mainstream trends, and asked how they could, they didn't want to explain for fear of being killed. So they said "THE god told me so". (same trend today - if someone out of his/her mind does a crime, a common excuse is "a voice in my head told me so". ). And since those rebels sometimes had success, others started to follow - THAT god must have been mighty strong. So man invented "prophets", a whole number of them. And they started writing things down,
because writing had been invented. And people following the words of those prophets founded their very own religion, the first of the three large ones - Judaism.

One of those prophets even was able to defy the mightiest war-mongers at the time for a bit - it was roughly 2.000 years ago, or so they say. His thoughts defeated the hatred of those war mongers, known as romans. For which they killed him in a way as was common then - involving a crucifix. This person wasn't the only one dying by cricification, thousands did, but THIS ONE said that "THE god" inspired him to do all this. A mighty prophet, founder of an entire cult of followers - a new religion was born - Christianity.

Much later a new guy shows up, trying to get his point across - as he can't do so as a regular guy, so he too says "i speak on behalf of THE god", and his words are powerful and like sheep follow the shepherd for they know no better, people follow this new "prophet". A few additions to age-old "rules" and voila, the newest religion is created - Islam.

Now it is human nature to attempt to impress others. Or why did they invent money? Just so some can have more than others, no other reason. And for same reason, man will ALWAYS fight wars. Now with the existence of several religions, there is always an excuse at hand to start a new war - "my prophets are better than your prophets", even tough these prophets are largely the same with the exception of one or two. In thousands of years
that things have been written down in one or another way, there have been add-ons by translators, pure fantasy mixed in whatever was the trend at the time of writing, etc...... so today we have x versions of the bible, depending on what flavour of Christianity you belong to.... as well as the Qu'ran which is in great parts identical to the bible. Jehovah’s witnesses version which again is identical except for some very small alterations.

So since they are all more or less identical, they contain also more or less the same flaws, err, "rules" that were thought out back then in the stone age for the sole purpose of control over others. So someone back then had the glorious idea that it was bad to allow women equality and, "with the words of god in his head" brought that idea to paper or rock....... and the sheep (err believers) still follow that nonsense today .

I will NEVER blame ANYTHING I did on "god" or other super-natural elements, for what i do is my sole responsibility and i'm in charge of my actions. Religions are man-made, human life is given by nature. The first we can control, the second we can't. We are human because we are. We are Jews, Christians, Muslims or buddhists because we chose to.

I apologise if i have insulted a follower of any faith with my words, please accept my apology. And no, i am NOT a "prophet" nor do i want this title even though my views may be revolutionary to some.

(Saying that I was always interested to join the church of Undulation ).

The above context is not mine, My thanks to the unknown author who wrote that piece. It sums up what I think about the whole debate.I have edited many parts to suit my feelings.

Salome · 02-08-2008, 11:33 AM

I had not been following this thread and after coming through most of it I'd say this would be better placed in the Sauna.

Aisha Azar · 02-08-2008, 02:42 PM

Dear Dipali,
I find that many people actually belong to the Temple of Religious Self Righteousness.
Being a Pantheist, my main belief about religion is we find the one that works for us, and therefore, we should try to be respectful of everyone else's because they are pretty much doing the same thing. I was raised Roman Catholic and found that it did not really work for me, but it seems to suit my Mom and a couple of my siblings just perfectly.
The nice thing about being a Panthiest is that our spiritual capital is wherever we happen to be in that moment. All of our pilgrimages to holy places happen in the very instant we think of them. It really saves on travel expenses!!
Regards,
A'isha

02-07-2008, 02:05 PM	#92 (permalink)
Aisha Azar V.I.P. Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Pacific Northwest USA Posts: 4,518	Hijab Dear Midoria, My Saudi friend said that yes, Egyptians do use the word "Hijab". I forgot to ask her about the G or J sound, and I apologize for that. Regards, A'isha

02-08-2008, 01:47 AM	#96 (permalink)
Aisha Azar V.I.P. Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Pacific Northwest USA Posts: 4,518	Saudi Dear Kutenurse, I know this is addressed to Gypsy and I will leave most of it alone, but I just wanted to point out that I am the one who said that about solitary confinement, not gypsy. I do stand by it as I did a paper on the injustices and abuses in the prison system in college and this was a huge issue. Anyway, below. Perhaps I posted a poor quality video, however, the written documentation I have seen written in the Muslim kuran does not lie about Muslim men's views on how they treat women. For example: Tabari IX:113 "Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur'an." A. writes- Taken in context to the times, when women were indeed mostly treated like cattle throughout the world, this is a step up , believe me. The Prophet Mohamed ( Peace be on him) was the first man in the monotheistic religions to admit that women had rights at all, and he saw to it that they were given inheritance rights, the right to an equal education with men, the right to own their own businesses and keep their own money, and much more. In the U.S, just a little over a hundred years ago, men could vie for the right to control the property of a woman whose husband has died.... even if they were not related to her!! Qur'an 4:43 "Believers, approach not prayers with a mind befogged or intoxicated until you understand what you utter. Nor when you are polluted, until after you have bathed. If you are ill, or on a journey, or come from answering the call of nature, or you have touched a woman, and you find no water, then take for yourselves clean dirt, and rub your faces and hands. Lo! Allah is Benign, Forgiving." [The Qur'an claims women are unclean and polluted - worse than dirt.] A. writes- Actually that line just means if you have had sex with a woman, you should clean up before prayer. The Bible, by the way, says the same thing. I should also add here that women are constantly being referred to as "unclean" in the Bible when they are having their periods. Also, in one Jewish prayer, men thank God that they are not women. Monotheistic, patriarchal religions do have that mindset. If you really want to get sickened, I challenge you to go online and Google "Christian Domestic Discipline". Bukhari:V4B55N547 "The Prophet said, 'But for the Israelis, meat would not decay, and if it were not for Eve, wives would never betray their husbands.'" A. writes- This line is suspect because there were no "Israelis" during the time the Qur'an was being written. I do see weaknesses in your education material you tried posting such as: Using a talk show host as a reputable source for domestic violence. Also, your comparison of capital punishment of a woman being stoned to death in Iran vs. the United States use of death penalty for murderers. Also, I am not certain how you can tie solitary confinement into the same category as capital punishment. A. writes- Think about the men who sit in solitary confinement on death row and see if you do not think that is as cruel and unusual as beheading, or electrocution, or hanging. I certainly do. I am the one who brought that up, not Gypsy. I personally see that you also do not know much of the ways of the world of outside of the middle east and you have much to learn as we all do...including myself. I could also say you are prejudice against Americans for making statements you have said and I can also say you are misinformed in American ways. A. writes- Well, I said that and I am American..... Regards, A'isha Last edited by Aisha Azar; 02-08-2008 at 02:00 AM.

02-08-2008, 11:16 AM	#98 (permalink)
Dipali Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sunshine coast,Australia Posts: 873	religion women etc etc.... Hello everybody I have a few words to say about this debate. I apologise beforehand if i am going to hurt anyone with certain beliefs, but i stand to what i say and this is indeed a Belly forum and not the religious section, so here it goes. Religions, ALL of them, have been invented by HUMANS. When Cro-Magnon man saw things he could not explain with his knowledge, in search for an answer he invented god. Many gods, in fact - rock god, tree god, water godetc. And since any of those could kill him, he started to worship them out of fear. NOT being killed by a falling tree was considered a success in praying to the tree god. As simple as that. As evolution went on, man grew more knowledge - and more gods. And as man became more knowing, he invented things to catch food. Weapons. And the same time, man became lazy. So why go to hunt when he could use the hunting weapons to steal the food from someone who had already hunted with success? WAR was invented. And with war came "my gods - your gods". And the winning party's gods must be stronger than the losing party's, so more people started following those "strong gods". Many moons later certain people started to rebel against mainstream trends, and asked how they could, they didn't want to explain for fear of being killed. So they said "THE god told me so". (same trend today - if someone out of his/her mind does a crime, a common excuse is "a voice in my head told me so". ). And since those rebels sometimes had success, others started to follow - THAT god must have been mighty strong. So man invented "prophets", a whole number of them. And they started writing things down, because writing had been invented. And people following the words of those prophets founded their very own religion, the first of the three large ones - Judaism. One of those prophets even was able to defy the mightiest war-mongers at the time for a bit - it was roughly 2.000 years ago, or so they say. His thoughts defeated the hatred of those war mongers, known as romans. For which they killed him in a way as was common then - involving a crucifix. This person wasn't the only one dying by cricification, thousands did, but THIS ONE said that "THE god" inspired him to do all this. A mighty prophet, founder of an entire cult of followers - a new religion was born - Christianity. Much later a new guy shows up, trying to get his point across - as he can't do so as a regular guy, so he too says "i speak on behalf of THE god", and his words are powerful and like sheep follow the shepherd for they know no better, people follow this new "prophet". A few additions to age-old "rules" and voila, the newest religion is created - Islam. Now it is human nature to attempt to impress others. Or why did they invent money? Just so some can have more than others, no other reason. And for same reason, man will ALWAYS fight wars. Now with the existence of several religions, there is always an excuse at hand to start a new war - "my prophets are better than your prophets", even tough these prophets are largely the same with the exception of one or two. In thousands of years that things have been written down in one or another way, there have been add-ons by translators, pure fantasy mixed in whatever was the trend at the time of writing, etc...... so today we have x versions of the bible, depending on what flavour of Christianity you belong to.... as well as the Qu'ran which is in great parts identical to the bible. Jehovah’s witnesses version which again is identical except for some very small alterations. So since they are all more or less identical, they contain also more or less the same flaws, err, "rules" that were thought out back then in the stone age for the sole purpose of control over others. So someone back then had the glorious idea that it was bad to allow women equality and, "with the words of god in his head" brought that idea to paper or rock....... and the sheep (err believers) still follow that nonsense today . I will NEVER blame ANYTHING I did on "god" or other super-natural elements, for what i do is my sole responsibility and i'm in charge of my actions. Religions are man-made, human life is given by nature. The first we can control, the second we can't. We are human because we are. We are Jews, Christians, Muslims or buddhists because we chose to. I apologise if i have insulted a follower of any faith with my words, please accept my apology. And no, i am NOT a "prophet" nor do i want this title even though my views may be revolutionary to some. (Saying that I was always interested to join the church of Undulation ). The above context is not mine, My thanks to the unknown author who wrote that piece. It sums up what I think about the whole debate.I have edited many parts to suit my feelings. __________________ Australian Belly dance store - Belly Dance Costumes, Bollywood & Tribal outfits. Last edited by Dipali; 02-08-2008 at 11:42 AM.

02-08-2008, 02:42 PM	#100 (permalink)
Aisha Azar V.I.P. Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Pacific Northwest USA Posts: 4,518	Saudi, etc. Dear Dipali, I find that many people actually belong to the Temple of Religious Self Righteousness. Being a Pantheist, my main belief about religion is we find the one that works for us, and therefore, we should try to be respectful of everyone else's because they are pretty much doing the same thing. I was raised Roman Catholic and found that it did not really work for me, but it seems to suit my Mom and a couple of my siblings just perfectly. The nice thing about being a Panthiest is that our spiritual capital is wherever we happen to be in that moment. All of our pilgrimages to holy places happen in the very instant we think of them. It really saves on travel expenses!! Regards, A'isha

02-07-2008, 07:02 PM	#93 (permalink)
da Sage V.I.P. Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: MN Posts: 1,109	I also would like to thank everyone on this thread for being honest in their responses, and working to increase cultural understanding. I hope we can all be receptive to new ideas in the future, and be patient and forgiving of each other, even if we are hurt by other people's assumptions about our cultures or characters. p.s. Ranya, it would take much more than a suggestion that we soak in the Sauna to make me hate you! p.p.s. If anyone wants my (outsider's) opinion on Minnesotan culture, I have plenty! But that didn't seem on-topic to this thread.

02-08-2008, 11:33 AM	#99 (permalink)
Salome Super Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Corvallis, Oregon, USA Posts: 1,842	I had not been following this thread and after coming through most of it I'd say this would be better placed in the Sauna.