lizaj

Take a dancer serious about her (Egyptian) style and will she get anywhere without taking lessons with Egyptian teachers either "over there" or visiting your country. I meet many dancers and teachers for whom this doesn't figure high on the agenda yet they are seemingly serious about their dancing and teaching and about standards.
Is this the same with other forms of BD: Turkish, ATS etc..I would assume so. but over to you? How much exposure have to had to "the real thing".
How good is the "cascading" of a style through your local community or do folks lock themselves away in their little comfort zone, tucked up with the odd DVD.

Eshta

I personally think we are very lucky with the internet, with DVDs, with youtube, and with global travel becoming so easy, it becomes easier to study 'remotely' without putting foot in the "homeland".

Still, you can usually easily spot dancers who have gone to Belly Dance Mecca (usually Cairo) to learn and I know I intend to make at least an annual pilgrimage.

I also guess it depends what you are striving for. Cairo seems inappropriate if you are aiming for AmCab or ATS perfection, surely?

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Eshta - South West London Belly Dancer

Aisha Azar

Dear Eshta,
I am considered among Arabs to be very Egyptian in my style. Also by people like Shareen El Safy, Hallah Moustafa and some others who are experts in the style. I have studied with Egyptian dancers, but have never spent time in Egypt. I do, however, hang out with Arabs all the time, so I feel that I pick up a bit about culture and the Arab world view practically every day. I am not sure spending a few days in Egypt would be of more benefit to me that my daily life experiences, especially since I make it a point to study with the Egyptian dancers whenever possible. However, I think I am going to try to go to Egypt next year, really to visit Hallah as much as for any other reason. I have very high standards and am considered an expert in the Egyptian style. Sticking one's toe in the Nile does not necessarily make one a better dancer if it is not there inside the dancer already, and I think this goes for all styles of dance.I am not sure I understand about the "cascading of a style". Can you please explain?
Regards,
A'isha

janaki

Yes, it is important to study with natives to understand the culture and how they interpret the music. As Aisha said it, spending few days in egypt doesn't make you a better dancer, but it will help you to observe and understand native culture. No amount of DVD, youtube clips will replace a real teacher. To dance like any natives, it takes a lot of time and hard work. In my opinion, it is just not the dance teachnique, it is about learning, their culture, customs, traditions, language and whole lot of stuff.

adiemus

I interpreted 'cascading of style' to be like that old 'whispers' game where one thing is passed on to another to pass on to another to pass on to another. Without reference to the original, what comes out at the end is very different!!

For me travelling to Cairo is cost prohibitive (anywhere from NZ is expensive!) so I hope I can pcik up what I can via Youtube, DVD's, here - and my teacher who does attend workshops by Dr Mo and others.

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He wahine, he taonga- Every woman is a treasure(Maori proverb)

Suheir

Here comes a cookery analogy!

I remember many years ago I bought an Indian rolling pin which is much thinner than a usual rolling pin and tapers towards the ends. I read in several recipe books that one could roll out indian breads into perfect circles by rotating the dough under the rolling pin. I tried and tried so many times and just couldn't work out how to do it by the instructions in the cookery books.

It wasn't until I took a cookery course with an Indian tutor that I immediately "got" the technique when I saw her do it in front of me.

Kharmine

I have a teacher who's been doing Egyptian styles in the United States for decades and whose dance company was honored for the authenticity of its performance by a number of Arab and Arab-American organizations. She's not Middle Eastern, but she's stuck close to the roots.

Nonetheless, If I went to Egypt it would be to learn what I can't here -- more of what my favorite vintage and current dancers project in person and up close by teachers who are very familiar with their styles.

Such as that of Nagwa Fuad -- she should be the patron saint of American Cabaret/Oriental as she really knew what to do with a big space and/or bigger, bolder movements.

Tahia Carioca's style should be studied for how to compact a lot of movement in a small space -- perfect for the more restrained style of belly dancer.

Fifi Abdo, well, for everything, including making it look so easy.

I would also want to see more baladi as performed there. I would love to see genuine ghawazee dances. I'd like to talk to the Egyptian performers - the dancers, musicians and singers about their lives and arts.

If I was hoping to be an authority on the history and cultural context of belly dance, I'd definitely go to Egypt, to other parts of the Middle East, Turkey and Greece, too -- and spend as much time as I could listening, watching and asking questions, besides taking lessons and watching performances.

IMHO, you can be a wonderful belly dance teacher without leaving your country; you can, and should, be quite knowledgeable in the history and cultural context without going abroad. But to be a true expert you have to do at least some study in the mother countries of your styles and learn what you can first hand.

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What if the hokey pokey is really what it's all about?

Maria_Aya

I trully believe with all my heart, that if someone is open minded he/she will understand that what we do in West (even with what western arab's say to us) is a version of what is happening to arab lands.
My trips to Cairo was and still is an apocalipsys, and everytime i come back to greece i feel WOW i have long road to go !
More than the lessons, its the feeling of walking in the roads, speaking with people, being in fellukas on the Nile where people male and female DANCE at 4 am, being at Beduine weddings, helping for the wedding (even meaning helping to move the furniture for the new house, on a truck, and going in the Cairo roads ON the truck with tabla's and songs), watching dancers at nightclubs from high hotels, to low places (where you need protection to enter).
So for me not only we have to study with teachers from over there, but we have to travel also to be completed (and as westerns i trully believe that we can't reach the level of theirs) just because this dance that we are practising is so much tight cultural connected. With unspoken things, that we have to learn from A and they know them even being born.
And i'm not talking about the teqnical things, yes we can be greater than many in the teqnick part, and feel also, and have soul, but we will miss something.
On the other hand this is something that doesnt have to make use feel discouraged, as even in this point, this dance offer us a rare soul beauty.
I believe also that knowing the language is a great avantage for a dancer, not only the lyrics, but what is hidden behind them.
I might seem a bit harsh but cause lately saw some video's of west dancers dancing to greek tsifteteli songs, doing the most stupit things, not knowing what the songs are saying etc, i start understanding how it is for arabs, or turks. Beautiful output, but nothing to do with the real thing.

my 5 cents (of euro lol)

Maria Aya

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... because Oriental Dance is the visual poem over the music....

lizaj

Where did I say I'd go to Cairo to learn ATS?
I do realise I'd be popping off to San Fran or Oregan or Hawaii wherever to do that or Istanbul for Turkish..I'm not spelling out each example just the first, my dear. Not sure where I'd go for Amcab ?New York? Las Vegas?
I have to say I think DVD instruction has to be of a far better quality than most to be of much use and God help the poor student who is watching Youtube..learn from our Merseyside bellydancer of many little offerings , do you reckon?
Sorry I think one has to go to class and use DVD as backup and yes once you have a grounding to watch really good instruction on fim or great performances to try to get a feel for make makes that dancer good, authentic whatever.

lizaj

I have to say I have come around to your way of thinking. To be truly in touch you do have to immerse yourself or at least have a good wash in the country and I envy dancers like yourself, Maria Aya to do so. If you are going to be an Egyptian style teacher you have first to have learnt from a local one of some quality (as I did) then you make it a mission to go to festivals where great Egyptian teachers and dancers are or at the least you own continent's top proponents of a style who themselves are "in touch". The accents and nuances of the style will constantly change over there and the dancer lucky enough to visit regularly and study over there ( as I know Tracey does...lucky c...er.. person) will be the one who brings home to us what it's all about if we don't get to Aida or Randa.
I have been to Egypt twice ( and am booked to go to Luxor again Ghawazee hunting!) and I don't go just for the dance, I am fascinated by the history and the modern world of that country so I probably waste precious dancing time rambling around Karnak, bargaining in a souk and watching the world go by from the terrace of a hotel. It's dipping your toe in a country I know
I've also been to Morocco and Tunisia and although belly dancing wasn't up to much, the folk dancing was. As Maria ,I believe gives a layer to your dance, watching and studying the world it came from.
Also as Maria says, I watched American and European much vaunted "Egyptian " style expert dancers and er...no..they weren't really..not once you've seen the likes of Randa, Dandesh and Aida etc. That isn't to say they were bad dancers but I think a lot of folks know they are good and are well informed but they sometimes rest on their laurels and their reputation
( well earned) as an expert belly dancer and don't take any opportunity they can to study with teacher or dancer dancing "over there".
I bless the opportunities I have had to study with Khaled Mahmoud, Randa Kamal, Asmahan and Sara Farouk and look forward to Aida Nour and Yasmina.
We're lucky to have dancers like Tracey, Anne and Kay up here in the frozen north of England who go regularly to Cairo and bring back the "accent" for us.
Equally learning tribal with Paulette Rees Denis, Domba and Wendy Marlett was a real eye opener and boost to the troupe I belong to..we began to get it right without going stateside.