TinaL

Earlier in this thread (or maybe it was somewhere else, I'm so tired right now I can't remember), it was mentioned that Westerners especially have a problem with bellydance in the aspect of "sexual vs sensual", and the rationale being, perhaps, that we don't celebrate the joy in our lives by dancing it, the way some other cultures do. I personally believe it's due to the strictures of certain Christian groups which teach that dancing is somehow inherently evil ... Some sects say "no dancing, no singing", etc. because it's somehow not "right", that dancers (here, read "bellydancers") are sinning with every shimmy, every maya, every undulation. Of course, these same sects teach the Bible as being the absolute truth in every word, neither adding nor subtracting, which is a complete contradion since the Bible DOES speak of dancing, (though not "bellydancing" in those very words) as has been established here. How does this apply to modern bellydance? Or even the history of bellydance? Maybe it does, and maybe it doesn't. It depends on your personal understanding of the history and evolution of this dance form, and everyone may have a different view on this, which is wonderful. But whether you subscribe to Christianity as a personal path or not, as this topic applies to bellydance, think for a moment of where on the face of this world Christianity originated -- what we know today as (broadly) the Middle East! I don't think it's such a far stretch to encompass the possibility that the dance as we love it today may have its roots in the very "dancing" as described in the Bible.

Some people have difficulty correlating their love of this very sensual, wonderful dance form with any kind of spirituality, as if the two should not mix. And some dance with the joy in their souls, and this, for them, can be an extremely spiritual moment.

Kharmine

I don't know that we can blame certain Christian groups for this attitude in the Western world. There have always been ascetic types throughout civilization, history and various religions who have railed against "wanton dancing," and especially the public performances of women because it invited the lustful gaze of men who did not "own" them.

I blame patriarchal societies in general -- the more control and censorship of women the harsher the attitude towards anything that expresses their freedom, autonomy and individuality.

And there's also a strain of philosophy that regards the material world as inherently evil because it is a distraction from unity with the supreme spiritual being. In some Gnostic teachings, for instance, there is a dual-divinity: The "evil" god was the one who created the material world, and thus the human body was inherently evil, too.

Oddly enough, these gnostic teachings influenced some of the early founders of Christianity as an organized system. But you can see this influence elsewhere, too.

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What if the hokey pokey is really what it's all about?

Sara

I think in terms virgin dancers who are dancing to 'lighten' the hearts of depressed men is a bit of a contradiction. Why is it a virgin dance? Thats what I don't get. It could have been an ancient Egyptian worship dance to the gods or something for all I know, lol.

I'm not sure about dance and spirituality together though. Jut the term virgin dance is strange.

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With a little bit of this and a little bit of that, now shake your bum.... :P

Kharmine

It may be that "virgin dance" is not the literal translation. Depending on which language it was written in (ancient Hebrew in the Old Testament, Greek from Aramaic in the New), it could mean something like "dance of the maidens."

In some societies, you have maidens and young unmarried boys who do things separate from the old marrieds.

__________________
What if the hokey pokey is really what it's all about?

Shanazel

And for a long time, "virgin" referred to an unmarried woman, but not necessarily a woman who was sexually uninitiated.

Aniseteph

So dance is OK by the bible, but I agree with Sara - nothing to say what kind of dance it refers to. And call me unspiritual but IMHO the moves involved in belly dance do not suggest it's roots are amongst the virgins/unmarried maidens.

Aisha Azar

Dear Aniseteph,
I would agree with this very common sense approach to looking at the nature of the dance!!

I have to say that I also feel that in countries like the USA, where Puritans set down the rules, we will find a lot of reticence about accepting the sexual nature of the dance. It is something that we have never quite got a handle on despite the best efforts of people like Thomas Aquinas to show that humans and life here on earth are a part of the bigger spiritual picture and not so sinful just by nature after all. ( We perhaps should all dance in Scarlet As!! Famous belly dancer "Hester Prynncess".... oh gawd.... where oh where is my coffee cup???) At the same time, I agree with Hindis that sex IS spiritual. But then, I guess I also have to confess that I think everything else is, too.
Regards,
A'isha

belly_dancer

I don't know... have you been to a high school dance lately, & seen our young "maidens" dance????? eeeeee gawd!!!!..... I with a capital belly dance I! would be banned from the dance floor for being too "G" rated!

Aniseteph

I know. .
My point is that I can't see how those moves originate with those "maidens". They didn't invent moving like that, they are copying ladies of more, er, experience (in order to appear less maidenly themselves ). Suggestive dancers on MTV are not trying to move like a bunch of kids in the playground, it's the other way round.

Aisha Azar

Dear Belly_dancer,
..... Is there any reason why you think they are virgins????
Regards,
A'isha