Shanazel

You bet, babe. Post away.

Aziyade

Sigh.

As the original poster, I'm dismayed that my point appears to be lost.

Once again,
"When you "push the boundaries of your art" you should expect people to question you. And you should be prepared with a response. Art is about communication. What are you communicating?"

Art with a capital A, that is.

NO ONE is saying that Art doesn't evolve. Okay? No one is saying that the performing art known by some as "Bellydance" shouldn't evolve.

But we are not talking about social dance, or people dancing around in their living rooms or parties. We're talking about the PROFESSIONAL PERFORMANCE ART known as Bellydance or Raqs Sharqi or Oriental Dance or Middle Eastern Dance (various forum members have preferred names.)


Frankly, and I'm not meaning to step on anyone's toes, but the category of people who complain and whine the loudest about people misunderstanding their "art" are the newbies -- the novice performers, the students with a few years of classes (or less), and the student drop-outs who flit from one dance form to the next, attempting to fuse it all together.

The dancers who have BEEN AROUND, so to speak, realize that actually going to the trouble of creating ART or creating good fusion is difficult and takes a lot of time, energy, and effort -- AND you have to know your subject matter inside and out, which entails more than just one class a week for a few years.

Nobody wants to stifle anybody's creativity. But if you do something completely against the "tradition," you need to be prepared for people to call you on it, and not complain later that you're misunderstood.

Newbies:
If you've only been taking classes for six weeks or six months, you don't have to worry about creating "art" because you won't be. You should just ENJOY the dance and enjoy learning more about it. Dance and be free. Explore. Have fun. Play. Learn about cultural appropriateness, learn about the folk dances that underlie Middle Eastern Dance, explore the great singers of the past as well as those of the present,read about the history of African music. You have a whole world in front of you. Open up and dive in.

When you're ready to take your studies to a higher level and become a performer, then you can start looking at and studying the "greats" -- those pioneers our community considers Artists. And from there, possibly, you can go on to create Art of your own.

Or just enjoying being a performer and don't worry about communicating anything other than the music. Nothing says to have to try to create Art with every performance. Sometimes it's just play. Sometimes it's just practice.

sstacy123

That is absolutely what I want to do! I just feel like I'm walking into a cloud of negativity though.

Aziyade

Stacy I've been in your position. It sucks.

When I was a rank baby dancer, I had two people from both extremes whispering in each ear. I was TOTALLY confused about just what was meant by "authentic" and it almost made me crazy.

I was terrified to pick up a cane in case I had the wrong music. !! Could I do veil? Could I dance to pop music? What about cymbals?! And is George Abdo authentic music?!! What if I'm dancing to him and an Arab woman got offended ???!!!! AAAAAKKKKKKKKK!


Yep, been there. And anything you say probably will be scrutinized, and in some cases even made fun of, but you're going to learn A LOT from commenting and asking questions.

I made a lot of postings to the MEDdance list -- that was I think the only real outlet we had to ask questions of Those In The Know -- and was alternatively coddled and slapped around by Them. I have a thick skin; I got through it. (Plus now I can officially claim I lived through a public scathing by Morocco.) Finally one poster just basically told me, "Authenticity needs to be self-defined. You'll figure it out eventually."

I made friends with Arabs and took every opportunity to pick their brains. I performed a cane dance once, at a university student showcase, and one of my Egyptian friends asked me why I chose that music (George Abdo) I explained that it sounds Arab enough, and the rhythm is Saiidi. What more was there?

He smiled and laughed and said, "Well, his accent is Lebanese. And you say you want to dance Egyptian? Why not pick an Egyptian song?" He wasn't offended -- but thought it was curious. Was I embarrassed? Sure, but not for long. I learned from that experience (and later developed a fascination for Metkal Mknawi).

My real love is Turkish Oriental. So we can be put down together

Seriously, everyone new to this dance/music starts out ignorant. We're blank slates. There's nothing wrong with that, and there's nothing wrong with asking questions or commenting (no matter if later you decide those comments were bone-headed.) How else are you going to learn???

It's DELIBERATE ignorance that really bugs me. Of this kind:

"Well, I want to be a professional performer and I want to get a restaurant job and be an ARTIST, but I don't want to learn anything about the cultural significance of the dance, and I took a flamenco class for two weeks, so I think I'll create a new fusion of flamenco and bellydance and then I think I'll start teaching and giving workshops and who the hell cares what Aziyade and A'isha think, cause I'm an ARTIST!"

And I see this all .... the .... time. Sigh.

Some of the most famous Am Cab dancers (Anaheed Sofian, Jenaeni Rathor, Alexandra King) are women who have done A LOT of research on the cultures and music that make up Bellydance. They're in the know, but prefer to stick with the American Cabaret form of the dance. Others like Fahtiem and Dahlena have moved away from their Am Cab roots and gone more Egyptian.

For me, I place Am Cab squarely in the "Bellydance" definition, and I'd put Amaya and Dalia Carella there too. I reserve the term "Oriental Dance" and "Middle Eastern Dance" for the styles that have a distinct ethnicity, devoid of too many modern western fusion elements. That's how I self-defined authenticity.

You will most likely change your mind dozens of times, the more you learn and grow. I had zero interest in Egyptian style until I studied with Shareen el Safy. Also zero interest in the modern jazzy styles until I studied with Suhaila. Most of what I end up PERFORMING is what's loosely called Westernized Egyptian, because that seems to go over pretty big with the GP here.


BESIDES, if nobody commented on any posts, longwinded people like me (who like to TALK about dance almost as much as we like to DO it) would have nothing to do all day.

sstacy123

Well I guess that is part of my difficulty...I do NOT have a thick skin.

Aisha Azar

Dear Stacey,
I am not sure why you think anyone has a negative attitude toward Amercian Cabaret dance ( or American Oriental, as Salome calls it: a name I find entirely wonderful). This dance is an art in itself. I just don't happen to believe it has an inherent ethnic quality necessary to refer to it as belly dance. I have great respect for dancers like Salome, Ne Kajira Janan, Suhaila Salimpour Khoury, Cassandra Shore, and others who really bring American Oriental to its peak in performance art. The style is beautiful, innovative and often the dancers in this form create some of the best fusion around.
While I disagree with Aziyade that it is belly dance, I agree with every other thing she said in her last post, which was right on the money in my own experience.
I guess you might label me as one of the main "ethnic police" out there. Well, it's a nasty and thankless job a lot of the time, but how much would we still know about the realities of the ethnic styles if not for people like myself. I just thank my lucky stars every day that I started with Arabs and have gained an understanding of the dance from their point of view. Authentic dance would be so buried under a mound of dance, both good and bad, that we might never again find it if not for people willing to speak out.
Regards,
A'isha

Kharmine

You "A" girls rock!

IMHO, if you're going to bring change to an art form that has a particular style and long traditions, it's perfectly reasonable to expect that you've thought your concept out even a little bit and aren't rude or condescending when asked about it.

Let's say a young new musician walks into a diverse gathering of jazz professionals and starts playing in a very different and experimental kind of way. The more experienced and older jazz professionals would be perfectly justified in asking, "What's that you're doing?"

If the newcomer says "It's bebop!" (or progressive or funk or some other style) -- the ones who are very familiar with that style might well say, "Uh, no, it isn't." They're not being rude (unless they take an unnecessarily mean tone) -- they really do have knowledge and experience and what the newcomer is doing just doesn't fit in with what he's claiming.

But if the newcomer responds with "It's music," or "It's doin' my own thing with some jazz thrown in," well, nobody can really argue with that. In fact, he could then get into a very enjoyable discussion about his innovation with the more experienced dudes who don't feel he's claiming something specific they know to be wrong.

Along those lines, we should be able to have a civil but lively and interesting conversation about what is specifically belly dancing (in all its styles) and what might be called a different kind of dance with belly dance-type moves.

But some people seem absolutely threatened by the mere question, "What is that?" They blow off the questioner -- or worse -- and then they're outraged when their claim is challenged, even if respectfully, by someone more knowledgeable and experienced.

Maybe they need to be evolving, too. I dunno.

So how DO we talk about this and related topics without descending into accusations, charges, and unrelated diversions? I'd really like to hear some sensible suggestions from those people who claim that just hearing others' opinions about HOW to talk about their art makes' 'em feel personally attacked or repressed.

__________________
What if the hokey pokey is really what it's all about?

sstacy123

I do wish I could remember the posts that have given me this impression...it may not have even been here, it may have been the MED list...giving the impression AmCab was lacking. For now it is my personal opinion that bellydance is a generic term, anything more specific is just what it is. But I know that topic has been debated! Yes, I would say you are a member of the "ethnic police" but I don't want you to get me wrong. I'm glad there are people that do care enough to preserve an art and a culture. You are obviously very passionate about it (by the way I would love to see you dance, anyone with that much passion must be a wonder) bit I just can't help but feel a negativity surrounding it. I'm sure this probably not the intent but it exists just the same.

Shahrahzad

As a dancer who has done many styles (ballet, modern, tap, jazz, musical theatre, blah, blah, blah) the most important point to dancing a form is that you know the rules of that form. Once you have a grip on that, you are able to make informed choices about exactly what it is you are doing.

Rules are not restrictions or limiters of imagination, but a structural framework for understanding, a map to begin a journey.

Once you know the rules, you are free to explore the whole territory without wandering in circles or getting lost. Plus if you create a whole NEW form you will be able to articulate what it is!

sstacy123

Hey, S girls rock too ! Kharmine it is a challenge and I certainly don't have all the answers, after all I am the newbie. I'm just pointing out something I see as a problem. (How are you going to preserve the dance if everyone is scared away?) While it is okay to ask questions I hope nobody would literally ask "what is that?" And as far as other ways of not being so negative I can't answer that question generally, perhaps in a specific situation...But I think often the way to go is putting the information out there and making people aware and the people that are interested will seek it out and if there is a question about it then it is up to them to ask someone who is knowledgable. The rest don't care anyway so comments are falling on deaf ears.
Respectfully,
STACY