sstacy123

Well I've rewrote this letter a couple of times and find myself struggling for the correct words, I'll give it one more shot though I'll probably regret it. As you know I'm new to the dance and AM trying to learn about it but it takes time. I remember when I read the book Snake Hips not understanding what Anne Soffee meant by the term "ethnic police," now I do. While I do appreciate and respect the people trying to preserve a culture and an art form something about the way it is being done is turning me off just a bit. I just feel like I have to watch what I say, I feel bound in my dance, I feel like anything I do bellydance wise will be scrutinized (not by the general public but by the bd community). While I believe everyone has the right to their personal preference I feel put down because I'm learning American cabaret. For me I want to feel joy in dancing-not worry if I'm Egyptian enough. I just can't believe that's what the early dancers had in mind-to me that is not the essense of the dance. Perhaps I will change my opinon as my dance "career" continues but for now I feel repressed and judged.
Respectfully,
Stacy

Aniseteph

Me too. And I'm learning Egyptian style! I can feel any personal essence and joy I have in dancing disappearing as soon as I start worrying whether if it is "wrong" to use a veil in a 3 minute solo.

None of which will be affecting my classmates who just turn up once a week and get on with it. The people who are interested in learning more about "real" belly dance get put off and repressed, and the rest continue in blissful ignorance.

Aisha Azar

Dear Simbul,
I have one very important question here. What makes you think the dance is all about what YOU feel and what YOU want? This dance is not all about freedom in the way that you mean it at all. It requires empathy and understanding that it is a cultural offering with boundaries and meaning, and its own spirit that is actually outside the dancer and extending into the heart and soul of a people. I not saying that anything outside that is not art... only that it is not belly dance unless it includes that spirit. And I am not sure why it would dampen your joy to discover and embrace the fact that the dance has roots, its own essence and its own set of movements and meanings. To me it seems arrogant to expect the dance to conform to what YOU want it to be instead of respecting its inherent qualities. If that makes me arrogant, etc., then I guess I am arrogant, and I might add proud to be so. I am also not confusing my own freedom and right to express myself with the dance, which is another thing all together.
Regards,
A'isha

Simbul

A'isha, this isn't meant to be rude but it will sound that way . When I dance, the dance IS about me. When I go to back to learn belly dancing, I will follow the instructors lessons to the point. Yet when I am alone or dancing in a social environment, the dancing is about ME . If I choose to improvise in a private, non-instructional environment, that is MY choice. I live to make MY life joyful first. I am honored and in awe of the middle eastern/north african cultures gift to the world when it comes to belly dancing. I appreciated that culture when I visited the middle east and will again when my best friend and I return to Turkey this fall.

What you stated in the first few sentences was your opinion on what the dance means, but are you truly speaking for all those in the middle east/north africa to what it means? Wow. Perhaps that is what the dance is to YOU, and I have no problem with that.

Simbul

The nicest reply I can come up with is that I re-read the posts before I posted and wasn't speaking to you particularly. Also, I thought it was cute how you chose certain words from my post that distorted the context of what I was trying to convey.

Aisha Azar

Dear Simbul
Having been close friends with Arabs for all of my dance life, (,33 years this year) having studied the dance and learned it through the eyes of Arabs, I think that I have a pretty good idea of how they view the dance. When I speak of the dance, often I am not giving my "opinion", but instead I hear the voices of the people with whom I have discussed the dance, both native professional dancers and the average person of native origin. They say pretty much the same thing if they know anything about the dance, but first I have to be in a postion to have earned their trust before they feel okay about being more than polite to me about it.
When I dance, I owe something back to the cultures and people from whom the dances emerged. If I choose to improvise and make what I am doing all about me, then I can have enough respect to call what I am doing "Dance of A'isha" as opposed to calling it belly dance. Because the moment I forget that the dance is about a LOT more than me getting out there and freely doing whatever I want, then I am no longer belly dancing. What I am doing may even be worthy of the title, "art", but to specifiy it as "belly dance" is incorrect.
Regards,
A'isha

Simbul

So YOU chose to make YOUR dance about something other than YOU. I chose to make my dance about me. I respect YOURopinion.

Aisha Azar

Dear Simbul,
... And I respect the dance. If you choose to see my last post as being about me as opposed to being about the dance, then you do need to open your eyes.
Regards,
A'isha

sstacy123

deleting my post after thinking about it I'd like to keep my feelings to myself at this time...

Kharmine

Ah, well, they're the words you chose to use. I did not take 'em out of context or misquote you. I pointed them out because for someone who claimed she didn't want to "start a fight," gratuitous words like these give rather the opposite impression.

"For you to come at me..." -- I wasn't aware any of us were. But I have far more legitimate reason to presume that you were including me in that "you" than you have for thinking that you were being ganged up on on this thread.

"...arrogant opinion." We are ALL encouraged to express our opinions on this forum without getting too mean or personal, and I think we tried to do that. This thread also discussed how to voice opinions, questions and corrections in a way that would be helpful and not offensive -- perhaps you missed that.

"...don't recall anyone who does improvise making a comment on this thread."
I don't recall that improvisation was ever at issue. Belly dancing is largely about improvisation. Probably EVERYONE who has commented on this thread has improvised his/her dance at some point.

...all so against evolving???" Again, your choice of words, and your assumption based on no evidence. No one here has made an argument to somehow freeze the most authentic Middle Eastern belly dance traditions we can find and not allow any innovations or changes whatsoever if we're going to call it "belly dance."

But there is a point when you have to ask is, "Is this belly dance or another dance style with belly dance moves included?" The point was, if I remember, How do you even raise the question without pissing off people who want to call it belly dance, regardless?

Which is why I suggested that you (and anyone who else who feels as you do) re-read the posts and consider the character of the post-ers (as much as you can tell), before gittin' all riled up and attacking people for having opinions you don't like or just don't understand.

No, I don't think so.

"Respect" is a hollow word when you're still choosing to assume the worst and take offense at someone's reasonably expressed opinion.

You don't agree with the opinions expressed? Then express your own -- but with reason, with maturity, with courtesy -- not the resentment of "It's only YOUR opinion," (yes, that's "just" my interpretation of your response) as if anything different from yours counts for nothing.

__________________
What if the hokey pokey is really what it's all about?