Gabi

This is where I think sometimes confusion comes in. I have NOT and I live on the West Coast - I've seen a lot of fusion, mixed tribal, American Belly Dance, American Middle Eastern Dance and then some probably *snork* but I've never seen any of it presented as authentic middle eastern dance or even belly dance. The only performance I've seen of what I believe to be authentic Egyptian Belly Dance was labeled Raqs Sharqi by promoters and dancer (if I find a clip I'll post it).

So, after reading along here for all these months I've come to the conclusion that I consider belly dance to be the movement and the individual designation to be the clarification thereof.

I might add that the woman who was doing the "Pirate Belly Dance" workshop is a dancer who does fusion, tribal, American Style Cabaret and authentic Egyptian style Raqs Sharqi. The Pirate stuff is just for fun and certainly does not mislead anyone going to the workshop unless they are seriously lost and the workshop itself is belly dance moves with balance, thus, why the rum bottle is always empty ;~).

Keeping fingers crossed that this will be taken in the spirit intended which is friendly

Aziyade

I took a look at the workshop where they're having the Pirate Bellydance, and it looks like they've got some fun stuff going -- PLUS they've created a new moniker: Tribalternative Dance.

I love that -- Tribalternative. Keeps us happy, cause they don't call it BD, and keeps some of the ATS fans happy cause they prefer to keep the term Tribal to mean something ATS related.

To go back to Ruric's clip -- she never calls herself "Middle Eastern" that I've seen, but rather the generic term "Bellydancer." I don't think this clip does her justice. She's really a lovely dancer, but I wish she could break out of that Rachel Brice mode and find her own style. She's young though -- early 20's -- so I would expect that she'll find her own style eventually.

This is another thread entirely, but have you notice HOW MANY Rachel Brice clones there are now? Do you know what I'm talking about? A lot of chest circles and torso undulations followed by a hip snap or two and writhing arms? I truly enjoy watching Rachel dance, and many of the clones have excellent technique, but you could pop their heads off and Photoshop in Rachel's and no one would know any different.

I don't really see that phenomenon in Egyptian or Turkish, or even old-school American Cabaret. Oh but were Nagua Fouad teaching here -- can't you imagine a whole fleet of Nagua clones ? I think the world would explode.

Suheir

Yes, and it's an instant turn-off - any clone is! I switch off as soon as I see a clone.

Aisha Azar

Dear Aziyade,
What message do you think Ruric's costuming and general movements give to the audience? I know that before I was a dancer myself, if I saw someone decked out in such an outfit, I thought they were doing Middle Eastern dance. I think the message to the general audience is the same.

Re Rachel Brice: When I saw the BDSS, I thought that if they had just let Rachel do her thing once and not had SSOOO many dances that were just the same with her and the other two tribal dancers, that she would have been the best thing in the show. Is it belly dance? No. Is it intriguing, beautiful and hypnotic and well done? Yes, but when you see little Rachelettes doing it all over the place, it does indeed really lose its appeal after about the 37th dancer in a row. And... the other thing that no one acknowledges is that these women can perhaps mimic Ms. Brice's movements, but they do not capture her spirit or essence, and that is a huge part of what she does.
I agree, the authentic belly dancers do not all look alike and that is part of the mystique of the true dance! I think that part of that has to do with the complexity of the movement in interpretation of the music, that one can get as a solo artist when performing to some of that really excellent. intricate Middle Eastern stuff. It simply can't be done with a lot of the music that is not Middle Eastern ( or with a lot that is!!) because of the quality of the music and the dance layering over, in and around each other like a tapestry.

Regards,
A'isha

Mariyam

I completely agree with you, I think that's what makes Rachel Brice so amazing: she has a great technique, yes, but she adds "something" to her dance, she bears a kind of mystical and spiritual aura that shines through her dancing. And this aura, you either have it, or you don't. And Rachel definitely does, as opposed to her clones...

Shanazel

Power yoga? Ooooookay.

I don't get to see many shows, so when I did make the long trek south to attend a tribal workshop and show, I was disappointed to find out how little belly dance I actually experienced in either. The teachers were lovely and the workshop was interesting, since I had exactly no experience in tribal, but middle eastern essence was completely lacking. The combinations had more in common with dances I've seen from India than with belly dance, but hey, it was a new experience.

But the show- I was caught between being appalled and being genuinely angry. There was exactly one dance that I recognized as being even remotely middle eastern, and that was pretty remote. I saw seven inch long gold fingernail extensions, a dance done with feather fans, a rather wild piece in which the dancer shook her boobs more than she moved any other part of her body... I kept my mouth shut initially because I am southern polite and knew if I ever once got started, would never shut up. A friend of mine drove home with me. She also teaches. At some point, she said, "If this is what belly dance is moving toward, I don't think I can continue." And the flood gates opened and we talked all the way home about it, each of us as appalled as the other.

A'isha, I didn't like what I saw, and neither did my friend, but Wyoming has a smaller population than most cities, and the belly dance community is tiny. Everything becomes personal very quickly. I like these people and don't want to cause waves that would do nothing but cause hard feelings.

I know this sounds like a cop-out, but I am just a small town dance instructor without the chops of many dancers on this forum. Nothing I say would convince these folks that what they are doing is not middle eastern dance, so I'm better off keeping my opinions to myself than alienating people in my community. If anyone ever asks, I will tell them what I think, but so far, no one has.

Shanazel

Aisha Azar

Dear Shanazel,
I often feel pretty afraid to voice my opinion, but I guess I am more afraid for the dance than I am of the harrassment I recieve for standing up against mislabeling... It is often not easy and I am totally sympathetic to your concerns. On the other hand, your opinion is just as important and in all probability might easily be just as informed as a person in any big city since you have the same access to information via all kinds of technology.

Now, this is the magic question. If you had been lead to believe that this was going to be a dance show that was not belly dance, would you have felt the same way about what was being presented on stage? If they had referred to it as interpretive dance or modern dance or some other name, would it have changed your impression?

Regards,
A'isha

Shanazel

Ah, the magic question. I can't recall exactly what the program was called, but it was presented as "innovative tribal belly dance", whatever the hell that means. No, I would not have been as upset had it been called something other than belly dance. I still don't think I'd have liked it much, though a couple of the individual dances were interesting. But to call it belly dance- the music was wrong, the essense was wrong, most of the costumes were wrong. It really did make me angry, so angry that it surprised me. Shoot, I don't even like dances choreographed for groups because to me middle eastern dance is response to music and not counting phrases, so I am off in my own deep end anyway.

Aniseteph

Even in my pre-BD days I wouldn't have thought it had much to do with the ME because the music is just so NOT. I'd have just sat there wondering why she's dressed as a bellydancer, because not being familiar with the moves I wouldn't have recognised them as especially BD. And for me nowadays the costume still gives a distracting message.

As for the Rachel clones, I'm glad it's not just me then...

And Yoga+pilates= yogalates always just makes me think of chocolates, which can't be right

Aisha Azar

Dear Shanazel,
I would not say you are off in your own deep end thinking that belly dance is not choreographed. Many dancers from over there do not choreograph their belly dances. And, when they do choreography, the word has a rather different meaning than how we use it here. The dance is, after all a solo, interpretive style that calls on the dancer's immediate emotional connection to the music as an important aspect of the interpretive mix. I would not say that ALL Middle Eastern dance is not choreographed, because some of it is folk dance that has a set pattern, but there are many dances that are not choreographed in their natural environment.
Regards,
A'isha