But It's Art!!!!! - Page 22

Mya · 02-13-2008, 08:40 PM

i agree with A'isha, far less eloquently, but i agree nonetheless.
Jenc i don't think it's likely that the term will ever become exclusive, but perhaps people will eventually start to identify their style as fusion without feeling like they are devaluing it and in so doing clarify what bellydance is a bit more.
Just as A'isha has been able to track the change over time, perhaps so too shall we in the future!

jenc · 02-13-2008, 10:14 PM

I very much agree that education in dance is important, but doubt how much it is possible to convey nuances to anyone who is not educated in dance, which is our major (possibly only) difference. Well I passionartely want to dance egyptian style, signed up for lessons in egyptian dance from teacher who is says she is passionate about egyptian dance, but as far as I can see from my relatively novice view, she just does not teach it. for example, in both her beginner's class, and her !advanced! class she teaches only choreography, teaches generic movements, and uses music from anywhere in the Middle East. In so far as she does teach any technique, it is all based on her personal style. In 20 weeks of beginner's in EGYPTIAN DANCE class we spent very little time doing anything else other than going over the moves for one dance to Kiss Kiss, which i believe is Turkish. She has been dancing for 8 years. There is an awful long way to go with dancers, never mind the general public.
how do I learn egyptian on my own?

Aisha Azar · 02-13-2008, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jenc

I very much agree that education in dance is important, but doubt how much it is possible to convey nuances to anyone who is not educated in dance, which is our major (possibly only) difference. Well I passionartely want to dance egyptian style, signed up for lessons in egyptian dance from teacher who is says she is passionate about egyptian dance, but as far as I can see from my relatively novice view, she just does not teach it. for example, in both her beginner's class, and her !advanced! class she teaches only choreography, teaches generic movements, and uses music from anywhere in the Middle East. In so far as she does teach any technique, it is all based on her personal style. In 20 weeks of beginner's in EGYPTIAN DANCE class we spent very little time doing anything else other than going over the moves for one dance to Kiss Kiss, which i believe is Turkish. She has been dancing for 8 years. There is an awful long way to go with dancers, never mind the general public.
how do I learn egyptian on my own?

Dear Jenc,
You can start by watching Egyptian videos to SEE what it is that makes them different.... and hopefully you will eventually believe there IS a difference, and that even the average guy on the street when seeing different styles of dance side by side, can tell there is a difference, though he or she may not be able to tell you what it is. You can also take some classes with people who are reputably Egyptian in their styling and feeling and essence, such as Shareen El Safy, Zahra Sohair, Lucy in D. C., Sahra Saida, etc. I am not sure where you live, but sometimes it is worth it to travel and study with people. If you have doubts as to anyone's credentials, ask around. Most dancers you ask should be able to give you some kind of good reference. Of all of the women mentioned above, I would study with Shareen El Safy or Lucy.
Regards,
A'isha

Mya · 02-14-2008, 01:04 PM

jenc i'm in the same boat right now, and my advice is that if you know anyone at all who does actually know about egyptian style, get a little help from them now and then for guidance. look at videos, see if you can identify certain things that you feel may or may not be particularly egyptian, look at the interpretation of the music and ask your person questions if you have them.
it's no replacement for an instructor, but it's a sure way to try to help yourself in the meantime!

happy dancing!

Makeda Maysa · 02-14-2008, 04:12 PM

Unfortunately, Lucy does not teach classes (yet - hint hint, Lucy!). However, I did take a workshop with her about how to interpret Om Kolthoum. It was the first time I'd ever found a connection to her music and I haven't lost it. What I loved was that Lucy first had us listen to the music and find a place within where we were able to connect with feeling of unrequited love (I think we were listening to "Hayart Albi"), then she had the lights lowered, had us close our eyes and dance our feelings, rather than trying to choreograph steps. And I got it! I actually found myself in tears by the end of it. Ever since, I have been a lover of the Om Kolthoum's music. I'm not sure that anyone else's teaching could have done that for me.

jenc · 02-14-2008, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A'isha Azar

Dear Jenc,
You can start by watching Egyptian videos to SEE what it is that makes them different.... and hopefully you will eventually believe there IS a difference, and that even the average guy on the street when seeing different styles of dance side by side, can tell there is a difference, though he or she may not be able to tell you what it is. You can also take some classes with people who are reputably Egyptian in their styling and feeling and essence, such as Shareen El Safy, Zahra Sohair, Lucy in D. C., Sahra Saida, etc. I am not sure where you live, but sometimes it is worth it to travel and study with people. If you have doubts as to anyone's credentials, ask around. Most dancers you ask should be able to give you some kind of good reference. Of all of the women mentioned above, I would study with Shareen El Safy or Lucy.
Regards,
A'isha

I live in the Uk so I can't take workshops with any of the people you mention. I already know what I think is the difference. Apart from a quote I had at a workshop which got me started on thinkinking how to move, "American dancers dance with the skeleton, Egyptians dance with the muscles", the thing that I love about Egyptian dancers is the playfulness, the way that they dance around the beat, not on the beat, freedom and fluidity, and definately no counting.
However, all I have so far found to watch is youtube clips. Can you recommend dvds that I might be able to get shipped to UK.

karena · 02-14-2008, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jenc

I live in the Uk so I can't take workshops with any of the people you mention. I already know what I think is the difference. Apart from a quote I had at a workshop which got me started on thinkinking how to move, "American dancers dance with the skeleton, Egyptians dance with the muscles", the thing that I love about Egyptian dancers is the playfulness, the way that they dance around the beat, not on the beat, freedom and fluidity, and definately no counting.
However, all I have so far found to watch is youtube clips. Can you recommend dvds that I might be able to get shipped to UK.

I haven't read all 216 posts on this thread, so forgive me if I am off the wall at all, but just in relation to that last bit there are frequently Egyptians coming over and teaching in the UK. So you can learn direct from them. Randa and Raqia Hassan were at Congress in Bognor last year (I learnt with them both

), Aida Noor is at Joy this Spring, Khaleed Mahmoud is pretty much always at Joy, and that's just off the top of my head. If you're outside the loop of knowing these events in the UK, then PM me. Or ignore me if I really needed to read all 216 posts

Oh and DVDs, one of the Farida tour ones features lots of Randa (performance not teaching)

Aisha Azar · 02-14-2008, 10:43 PM

Dear Jenc,
If you can study with the Egyptians, do so!! You will learn a little differently from them because most of them are not professional teachers, but professional entertainers instead, so they usually do not teach by breaking down movement in the manner of western teachers. Also, I think the dance is less about perfected technical movement for them, so their attitude toward how to move is different than in the west.
Aida Nour is one of the sexiest, warmest, dancers from over there and she has a large movement vocabulary as well. I hope to study with her and Randa some day.
Great advice for you from Karena!!
Regards,
A'isha

Damariz · 02-15-2008, 04:05 AM

Aida Nour is coming to chicago in 2008. Think you could make it?
www.chellcyraks.com - Calendar (check near the bottom of the webpage)

Aisha Azar · 02-15-2008, 02:39 PM

Dear Damariz,
I wish I could say definitely yes, but I am going to Egypt in April and Maine in September/October. I am hoping that she will eventually journey out this way. But who knows, its possible that I may come into a bazillion $$ and be able to afford every trip I have ever wanted to take.
Regards,
A'isha

02-14-2008, 04:12 PM	#215 (permalink)
Makeda Maysa Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Maryland Posts: 242	Unfortunately, Lucy does not teach classes (yet - hint hint, Lucy!). However, I did take a workshop with her about how to interpret Om Kolthoum. It was the first time I'd ever found a connection to her music and I haven't lost it. What I loved was that Lucy first had us listen to the music and find a place within where we were able to connect with feeling of unrequited love (I think we were listening to "Hayart Albi"), then she had the lights lowered, had us close our eyes and dance our feelings, rather than trying to choreograph steps. And I got it! I actually found myself in tears by the end of it. Ever since, I have been a lover of the Om Kolthoum's music. I'm not sure that anyone else's teaching could have done that for me. __________________ The Niraja Dance Company www.thendc.net

02-14-2008, 10:43 PM	#218 (permalink)
Aisha Azar V.I.P. Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Pacific Northwest USA Posts: 4,518	Dance etc. Dear Jenc, If you can study with the Egyptians, do so!! You will learn a little differently from them because most of them are not professional teachers, but professional entertainers instead, so they usually do not teach by breaking down movement in the manner of western teachers. Also, I think the dance is less about perfected technical movement for them, so their attitude toward how to move is different than in the west. Aida Nour is one of the sexiest, warmest, dancers from over there and she has a large movement vocabulary as well. I hope to study with her and Randa some day. Great advice for you from Karena!! Regards, A'isha

02-15-2008, 02:39 PM	#220 (permalink)
Aisha Azar V.I.P. Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Pacific Northwest USA Posts: 4,518	Aida Nour Dear Damariz, I wish I could say definitely yes, but I am going to Egypt in April and Maine in September/October. I am hoping that she will eventually journey out this way. But who knows, its possible that I may come into a bazillion $$ and be able to afford every trip I have ever wanted to take. Regards, A'isha

02-13-2008, 08:40 PM	#211 (permalink)
Mya Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Trinidad Posts: 604	i agree with A'isha, far less eloquently, but i agree nonetheless. Jenc i don't think it's likely that the term will ever become exclusive, but perhaps people will eventually start to identify their style as fusion without feeling like they are devaluing it and in so doing clarify what bellydance is a bit more. Just as A'isha has been able to track the change over time, perhaps so too shall we in the future!

02-13-2008, 10:14 PM	#212 (permalink)
jenc V.I.P. Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Colchester UK Posts: 1,050	I very much agree that education in dance is important, but doubt how much it is possible to convey nuances to anyone who is not educated in dance, which is our major (possibly only) difference. Well I passionartely want to dance egyptian style, signed up for lessons in egyptian dance from teacher who is says she is passionate about egyptian dance, but as far as I can see from my relatively novice view, she just does not teach it. for example, in both her beginner's class, and her !advanced! class she teaches only choreography, teaches generic movements, and uses music from anywhere in the Middle East. In so far as she does teach any technique, it is all based on her personal style. In 20 weeks of beginner's in EGYPTIAN DANCE class we spent very little time doing anything else other than going over the moves for one dance to Kiss Kiss, which i believe is Turkish. She has been dancing for 8 years. There is an awful long way to go with dancers, never mind the general public. how do I learn egyptian on my own?

02-14-2008, 01:04 PM	#214 (permalink)
Mya Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Trinidad Posts: 604	jenc i'm in the same boat right now, and my advice is that if you know anyone at all who does actually know about egyptian style, get a little help from them now and then for guidance. look at videos, see if you can identify certain things that you feel may or may not be particularly egyptian, look at the interpretation of the music and ask your person questions if you have them. it's no replacement for an instructor, but it's a sure way to try to help yourself in the meantime! happy dancing!

02-15-2008, 04:05 AM	#219 (permalink)
Damariz Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 76	Aida Nour is coming to chicago in 2008. Think you could make it? www.chellcyraks.com - Calendar (check near the bottom of the webpage)