chryssanthi sahar

Hello everybody.

We had a very interesting discussion about the relation of the image of belly dance to religion in the thread "national attitudes to belly dance and belly dancers". That discussion unfortunately started going out of hand, so the moderators of this forum had to stop it. I think though that it is worth to continue it, this time in a more objective and less emotional way. Is anybody else interested in continuing this discussion? And do you think, that this is the right forum for such a discussion, or should we move it to "off topic"?

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Oriental dancer and instructor of Greek origin, living in Germany
www.chryssanthi.com

Tarik Sultan

Okay I'll behave...but she started it....

Salome

I think it's an excellent idea for a topic chryssanthi. And perhaps one that should be here since it's likely to be quite passionate

Tarik Sultan

Okay, on the serious tip. The negative reaction in the Middle East is not just against dancers, but female performers of any kind in general. Likewise, it isn't just Muslims who object to public dancers, but christians too.

A few weeks ago, my my student and I were going home after our regular gig in an Egyptian club. By coinsidence, one of the girls who saw our show was on our train. She even lives in my student's neighborhood, so they walked home together after we got out the train. Once I was gone the girl, who claimed that she believed the dance was an art, started asking her when she was going to quit. She told her that she had no plans to do so any time soon. What about when you have kids? What about your husband how can he like this and on and on she went.

I have also done shows for Coptic organizations where the archbiushop was present. while no one had a problem with me, the girls had to wait till the Bishop left the room before they danced. He could not watch them.

I have also done shows where there were Hasidic men in the audience. Once again, they were fine when I danced, but when the lady came out, they turned their heads and didn't even steal a glance in her direction. They didn't even so much as look at her feet, so that pretty much tells you what they think about dancers.

This attitude has existed in this part of the world long before Islam, or christianity, or before most people knew what a Jew was. During the Roman era, entertainers although admired, were considered the scum of the earth and it was a disgrace to be one let alone marry one.

In Ancient Egypt, dancers were part of the servant class. and lathough they were enjoyed, they were not respected or highly regarded.

Gabi

HEY!!!! That was my line Mr. T. Sultan

I'm actually interested in seeing it continue, ya can get a lot out of these type of discussions and they keep forums lively

I'm not much good in the cultural/religious aspects of it except what I observe. My own "labeled, offended and designated" meter is set absurdly high. Basically I figure if people have stupid attitudes that I don't like it's their problem unless they are in a position to mess with me or mine. Of course, dancers are "mine". So there is still a dilema because I find that I don't fall in line with most of the dancers concerns regarding belly dance.

I am lock stock and barrel Pagan - that means I get to admire and respect all other religions but I don't have to follow their rules most convenient at times. I have found that there are a LOT of Pagans of all types in BD and actually Pagans also can fall into the fundamentalist tight arse crud. I do not like any fundamentalist religions .

To me the whole "whore/guys shouldn't/women shouldn't" stuff is kind of *meh*. That doesn't mean I'm not sympathic to those that are hurt by the stereotypes.

I do think that in life, how we handle one thing is often basically how we handle many things, therefore all things can provide a venue for handling stuff better and worrying about whether someone thinks you are a stripper a whore or a guy doing something they think is distastful is a collossal waste of time. Any of us who live in a culture and with a religion that at least can only have opinions but not actually control our actions are very lucky.

As the sewage treatment plant engineers are fond of saying "one man's shit is another's bread and butter". Believing that, I don't care (well not that much) if someone is doing something I think is awful or if they think totally wrong of something I'm doing

Basically when you go out with total conviction in what you are doing you do more to represent your point of view than any other way. That's not to say we shouldn't "educate" others when the mood strikes us - just don't get yourself in an unpleasant state when the "educating" doesn't take.

I feel that in restrictive religions belly dancing is frankly the least of the problems in that environment, how it is viewed is merely a part of a whole set of beliefs and restrictions.

I hope there is an automatic profanity filter or I could be in trouble

Lydia dubai

Hi all,do we realy have to have this threat?? religion is between you and god and nobody else business ......if everybody in the world just practise it this way the world would be a much nicer place ......it is nobody,s business if you pray standing up ,bending or sitting down.......and a private matter.....please lets go back talking about bellydancing and make people happy when performing and please our selves when dancing....there are to many problems and wars over religions...let us try to make a differance and let religion be everybodys own choice it wil make this world a better place........happy holidays Lydia

bin_rodi

Stupid Question ™

Belly dancers shaking things up in Muslim Malaysia - MSN-Mainichi Daily News

The Music & Dance of Ancient Egypt

Aisha Azar

Dear Group,
Being a Panthiest, I believe that God is manifested in everything. I may or may not have an understanding of the purpose of all of God's countless manifestations of itself, but I am just a small molecule who knows my own place. As such, belly dance is just as sacred an activity as any other.
(HHMMM.... Do I smell fire and brimstone...???).
Regards,
A'isha

TribalDancer

What a lovely sentiment, Aisha.

There isn't a religious category which could define me yet, but this description sounds somewhat like my leanings, but with a Christian slant.

Aisha Azar

Dear Tribaldancer,
It's my religious philosophy. I belive that there is not one thought, word, deed or any other kind of manifestation that is not God experiencing Itself. Though my understanding might be limited, my faith is boundless! ( This philosophy also means that all religions are "right" in that they are manifestations of God, too.)
Regards,
A'isha