Belly dance and religion - Page 8

Tarik Sultan · 01-02-2007, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bin_rodi

i went to university and i studied english language & literature in Cairo

Okay, so you have some education, that means that you know how to do real research instead of surfing the net. I can tell you where to go in Cairo to find factual information.

You can go to the Lernhart and Landrox book store in Cairo. I don't remeber the street but its in West il Belad near Midan Talat harb. Ask for a book called THE MANNERS AND CUSTOMS OF MODERN EGYPTIANS by Edward Lane. It was written by an English man named Edward Lane in the 1850s who lived in Egypt for many years at that time. IF you don't find the book there, the bookstore at the American University should have a copy.

Lane describes in great detail what the dancers wore at that time and even made drawings.

bin_rodi · 01-02-2007, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarik Sultan

So let me see if I understand you. You are willing to believe something you see on a website, but not information given to you by a collage educated history teacher.

You are willing to believe a website, but not actual photographs of real dancers from 100 years ago.

I think this should be proof to everyone that just because a person comes from a certain Middle Easter country doesn't neccessarily mean they know anything about the history of this dance.

there is no proof sir you are a collage educated history teacher
and let me repeat it: you already gave me non-accurate information before
and you already red my opinion in your photos

bin_rodi · 01-02-2007, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarik Sultan

Okay, so you have some education, that means that you know how to do real research instead of surfing the net. I can tell you where to go in Cairo to find factual information.

You can go to the Lernhart and Landrox book store in Cairo. I don't remeber the street but its in West il Belad near Midan Talat harb. Ask for a book called THE MANNERS AND CUSTOMS OF MODERN EGYPTIANS by Edward Lane. It was written by an English man named Edward Lane in the 1850s who lived in Egypt for many years at that time. IF you don't find the book there, the bookstore at the American University should have a copy.

Lane describes in great detail what the dancers wore at that time and even made drawings.

i really trust the internet
and i'll manage to get that book
have a nice day

Tarik Sultan · 01-02-2007, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bin_rodi

i really trust the internet
and i'll manage to get that book
have a nice day

As a collage educated person, you should know that you can't trust everything on the internet as accurate. That is why collage professors do not accept websites as valid sources orf research informantion. Any one can make a website and post anything on it. But since you trust it so much here are two website about Badia Masabni who created the form of Raks sharki we see today in the 1930s

www.belly-dance.org/badia-masabni.html

http://www.venusbellydance.com/articles.htm#ghawazee

Believe me, we all know that the bedlah was invented by Hollywood and Europeans theater companies.

Another well written and researched book to find is A TRADE LIKE ANY OTHER: FEMALE SINGERS AND DANCERS IN EGYPT by Karin Van Nieuwkerk

This woman interviwed many dancer from Mohamed Ali Street who told her what they use to wear in the old days. The Mohamed Ali street dancers didn't start wearing beblah till the 1960s

ANOTHER BOOK

LOOKING FOR LITTLE EGYPT by Donna Carlton
She shows many pictures of dancers from Egypt, Turkey Algeria, Palestine and Syria who performed at the World's Fair in 1893. ALL of them were totally covered and wore traditional clothes.

Tarik Sultan · 01-02-2007, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bin_rodi

and your photos prove nothing because if i went to USA and took a photo for an African American this will never mean that all American people is African American

No it wouldn't proove that all americans are black, but it would prove that there are black people in America.

My photos are only a few of literally hundreds of photos of Egyptian dancers.
When you go to the store I told you about also look for the picture post cards, or ask the store clerk for photos of the real Egyptian dancers from the 19th century, there are dozens of them.

As for the videos I showed you of men dancing, some of them were my videos taken this summer, but there were other videos put up by Egyptians one of them was even a music video. I think all of that is very good evidence to prove what I said.

bin_rodi · 01-02-2007, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarik Sultan

As a collage educated person, you should know that you can't trust everything on the internet as accurate. That is why collage professors do not accept websites as valid sources orf research informantion. Any one can make a website and post anything on it. But since you trust it so much here are two website about Badia Masabni who created the form of Raks sharki we see today in the 1930s

Badia Masabni

Venus - Articles

Believe me, we all know that the bedlah was invented by Hollywood and Europeans theater companies.

Another well written and researched book to find is A TRADE LIKE ANY OTHER: FEMALE SINGERS AND DANCERS IN EGYPT by Karin Van Nieuwkerk

This woman interviwed many dancer from Mohamed Ali Street who told her what they use to wear in the old days. The Mohamed Ali street dancers didn't start wearing beblah till the 1960s

ANOTHER BOOK

LOOKING FOR LITTLE EGYPT by Donna Carlton
She shows many pictures of dancers from Egypt, Turkey Algeria, Palestine and Syria who performed at the World's Fair in 1893. ALL of them were totally covered and wore traditional clothes.

don't stereotype the internet

anyway this still never prove that Islam allow belly dancing

and never prove Muslim woman used to dance in veil and whole body covered before westerners hear about belly dancing

listen sir, i have an idea:
i think you said you visit Egypt always, so why don't you go to the nearest mosque of your hotel and ask it's imam if Islam allow belly dancing
and let's see what he gonna answer you
tell him you are a belly dancer and tell us what he gonna say about you

to the nearest hotel not nearest bar, because i don't wanna you say stuff like:
he does not represent Islam or the imam don't know about Islam well

bin_rodi · 01-02-2007, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarik Sultan

No it wouldn't proove that all americans are black, but it would prove that there are black people in America.

My photos are only a few of literally hundreds of photos of Egyptian dancers.
When you go to the store I told you about also look for the picture post cards, or ask the store clerk for photos of the real Egyptian dancers from the 19th century, there are dozens of them.

As for the videos I showed you of men dancing, some of them were my videos taken this summer, but there were other videos put up by Egyptians one of them was even a music video. I think all of that is very good evidence to prove what I said.

bravooooooooooo as you admit the photos tell there was galabya dancers in egypt but not all of the dancers weard galabya before westerners

like there is African American in America but not all of Americans is African american

sorry sir but what your videos and tito's has to do with point about "existence of galabya in middle east before westerners a clue that Islam allow belly dance "??

Tarik Sultan · 01-02-2007, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bin_rodi

bravooooooooooo as you admit the photos tell there was galabya dancers in egypt but not all of the dancers weard galabya before westerners

like there is African American in America but not all of Americans is African american

sorry sir but what your videos and tito's has to do with point about "existence of galabya in middle east before westerners a clue that Islam allow belly dance "??

The videos were to prove that Egyptian men do dance with their hips. That was an answer to your statement about men dancing being like a woman with a mustach. You never answered or commented about the evidence I showed you

bin_rodi · 01-02-2007, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarik Sultan

The videos were to prove that Egyptian men do dance with their hips. That was an answer to your statement about men dancing being like a woman with a mustach. You never answered or commented about the evidence I showed you

honestly this thread is not for this subject at all, sorry

Tarik Sultan · 01-02-2007, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bin_rodi

bravooooooooooo as you admit the photos tell there was galabya dancers in egypt but not all of the dancers weard galabya before westerners

I really think a big part of the problem is that you don't speak English very well, that's why you don't understand what I'm telling you.

I mentioned Fif Abdo dancing in Galabeya to prove that you don't have to wear a bedlah to dance. And since the galabeya is the traditional dress of Egypt it existed long before westerners came there.