Belly dance and religion - Page 2

Rebecca_ · 12-28-2006, 02:10 AM

This is an interesting topic for two reasons: 1) It seems like a lot of religions are not tolerant of bellydance 2) Bellydance is part of religion and/or religious worship for some. So here's my perspective: I was raised Roman Catholic, went to catholic school, and was an altar server in the church up until I went off to college. Nonetheless, I would never let it be known in church that I bellydance. Although there are notable exceptions, I've found that people in my religion tend to be closed minded. Sure, lots of people have all these misconceptions about bellydance, but I'd never get a chance to defend myself to members of my parish.
Everyone has a right to believe or not believe what they feel is right, and I wish more people would respect that. Additionally, I find it upsetting how many closed minded and generally unaccepting people exist in the world today.
And as for bellydance as part of religion itself, I had a friend who is pagan, and saw bellydance as a sacred(like A'isha said) form of worship of the goddess. So in some cases when people scorn bellydancers on a religious basis they are in fact attempting to suppress other religions.

Gabi · 12-28-2006, 05:12 AM

In keeping with the theme of all being a part of one and one a part of all - this is why I say the way one handles one thing is often the way one handles most everything.

As case in point with religions - those religions that do not approve Belly Dance often also do not approve any kind of dance nor many other things that can be found within belly dance, hello Evangelical Christians who don't approve of Yoga either - big time. What is found offensive in dancing is a microcosme or macrocosme of what is found offensive in other aspects of those religions i.e., exhuberant displays especially by women, independence by women, exposure of the body and movement that can be construed as sexual is self explanatory.

chryssanthi sahar · 12-28-2006, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabi

As case in point with religions - those religions that do not approve Belly Dance often also do not approve any kind of dance nor many other things that can be found within belly dance, hello Evangelical Christians who don't approve of Yoga either - big time. What is found offensive in dancing is a microcosme or macrocosme of what is found offensive in other aspects of those religions i.e., exhuberant displays especially by women, independence by women, exposure of the body and movement that can be construed as sexual is self explanatory.

Very well said Gabi

This is also my opinion about the matter. The more suppressive against sexuality and sensuality a religion is, the more it abuses any form of dance and generally physical expression (especially non verbal physical expression). This is relevant not only for female physical expression, but also for male. If the body is an enemy (and it is in most religions and not only the monotheistic ones), then people feel obliged to fight against it.
There had been a time in my own life, when I had to choose between a religion and the Oriental Dance. I was (similar like Tarik. Hey brother

) a member of a protestant fundamentalist church (rare for a Greek. Actually I am Greek Orthodox, but at that time I got involved in protestant fundamentalism) many years ago and it happened, that I started dealing with belly dancing at that time. At first nobody said anything, because nobody knew anything about this dance. But when the pastor got "informed", he spoke very directly to me and told me, that he considers it a big sin to deal with such a dance and that I had to stop immediately. We had a big debate, where I recited different verses of the Bible which prove, that God has nothing against dancing, but he just didn't want to change his mind. When he saw, that he cannot win the argumentative battle he just used his power as a preacher and told me, that either I stop dancing immediately, or I'll get kicked out of the church

Guess what I did?

Fortunately I had started getting very critical about that church and it's beliefs also before the problem with the belly dance popped up, so that stupid debate just gave me the final conformation, that it was time to leave that fundamentalist bastion. And I am really happy I did

chryssanthi sahar · 12-28-2006, 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lydia dubai

Hi all,do we realy have to have this threat?? religion is between you and god and nobody else business ......if everybody in the world just practise it this way the world would be a much nicer place ......it is nobody,s business if you pray standing up ,bending or sitting down.......and a private matter.....please lets go back talking about bellydancing and make people happy when performing and please our selves when dancing....there are to many problems and wars over religions...let us try to make a differance and let religion be everybodys own choice it wil make this world a better place........happy holidays Lydia

Dear Lydia.
The title of this thread is not "personal religious practice", but "belly dance and religion". So nobody has to tell what religion he is practicing. Maybe you are lucky and you haven't ever experienced any problems related to your profession as a dancer, caused by religious fanatics. But there are some people in this forum who did (like myself) and these people are interesting in talking about the subject. This doesn't make our world worse, it just makes us more realistic about the world

Dipali · 12-28-2006, 07:18 AM

Dear Chryssanthi and Gabi
Excellent post.

This is what Ramin Jahanbegloo an Iranian philosopher said when he was asked about multiculturalism in Islamic Society ....

Islam, so often seen as the West's 'other' and depicted as a mono-cultural and intolerant religion, itself has centuries of experience of hosting and regulating a diverse cultural mosaic. But in today's world we are not only concerned with the concept of multiculturalism but also with the idea of dialogical pluralism which is something much more. It's something that makes democracy truly unique among all other political systems. That is, dialogical pluralism is a platform for people to speak about the ways in which they view the world and try to make it more decent. It's an environment of dialogue and mutual respect. This notion of dialogical pluralism has failed to reach out to the Muslim community in recent years. This has allowed a 'hard reading' of Islam to attempt to fill that void.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chryssanthi sahar

Very well said Gabi

This is also my opinion about the matter. The more suppressive against sexuality and sensuality a religion is, the more it abuses any form of dance and generally physical expression (especially non verbal physical expression). This is relevant not only for female physical expression, but also for male. If the body is an enemy (and it is in most religions and not only the monotheistic ones), then people feel obliged to fight against it.
There had been a time in my own life, when I had to choose between a religion and the Oriental Dance. I was (similar like Tarik. Hey brother

) a member of a protestant fundamentalist church (rare for a Greek. Actually I am Greek Orthodox, but at that time I got involved in protestant fundamentalism) many years ago and it happened, that I started dealing with belly dancing at that time. At first nobody said anything, because nobody knew anything about this dance. But when the pastor got "informed", he spoke very directly to me and told me, that he considers it a big sin to deal with such a dance and that I had to stop immediately. We had a big debate, where I recited different verses of the Bible which prove, that God has nothing against dancing, but he just didn't want to change his mind. When he saw, that he cannot win the argumentative battle he just used his power as a preacher and told me, that either I stop dancing immediately, or I'll get kicked out of the church

Guess what I did?

Fortunately I had started getting very critical about that church and it's beliefs also before the problem with the belly dance popped up, so that stupid debate just gave me the final conformation, that it was time to leave that fundamentalist bastion. And I am really happy I did

Lydia dubai · 12-28-2006, 08:32 AM

Hi Chrissanty,i am verry much aware of fanatics and religions,and how people think towardts beiing a bellydancer because i live and perform now for more than 25 years in the middle east and hade my share of disapprovel from people around me,so that is not realy it......i dont know how to explain it ,perhaps it,s just me, i feel somehow its taking the passion out of dancing or fun,when you have to think about or connect it with religion...i dont know how to explain it,.....??? sorry i am not very clear on expressing meself on this topic.But perhaps it because i am living in the middle east and so tired from constant beeing confronted with war and religion on a daily base around me ,....So my dancing is realy something so dear to me and a window out of this constant repeating conversations that everybody has around you when you live here,.....Most people dont even have hobby,s here and talking war and religion and it is a daily habbit for most people,from the man in the bakery till the waiters in the restaurant ,my musicians in the dressingroom, enz....So perhaps it,s a personal thing for me,and i was thinking its so cool to have a place where i can escape from it ,a place where people discussing dancing what is our passion....sorry i was just selfish.....i hope you have a great day....and happy dancing hope you are performing newyears eve?? best regards Lydia

bin_rodi · 12-28-2006, 01:17 PM

deleted
sorry i thought i didn't put it here before

Salome · 12-28-2006, 09:19 PM

Greetings,

several members told me that the national attitudes toward belly dance topic had been locked. I thought they were mistaken as I just moved it from one forum to another. But it indeed got locked. I'm not sure if I mistakenly did that or another moderator did. Sorry, that was not intentional. In any event This thread topic is a continuence of the previous so it all worked out.

Tarik Sultan · 12-28-2006, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Salome

Greetings,

several members told me that the national attitudes toward belly dance topic had been locked. I thought they were mistaken as I just moved it from one forum to another. But it indeed got locked. I'm not sure if I mistakenly did that or another moderator did. Sorry, that was not intentional. In any event This thread topic is a continuence of the previous so it all worked out.

The moderator locked it because the discussion was getting not only hot but toxic and I ended up telling someone he needed to seek therapy because he was emotionally......well you know. Turns out it was a good decision because it gave us a chance to pull back and get back to normal.

chryssanthi sahar · 12-28-2006, 10:28 PM

Dear Lydia.

I understand what you are talking about. Probably if I would live under similar circumstances, I would also not feel the need to talk about religious matters

But here in Europe things are different. People talk rather too few than too much about religion and I find it great, that this forum is so multifaceted, so that people who are interested in a topic such as religion have the opportunity to discuss about it. I find the big variety of sub forums really wonderful, it is something for everybody here and that's why I love this forum

I wish you a wonderful New Year's Eve and a very happy New Year (and hopefully you'll get to know some people who don't talk only about religion and war

).
By the way, my daughter's name is also Lydia

12-28-2006, 01:17 PM	#17 (permalink)
bin_rodi Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Cairo, Egypt Posts: 79	deleted sorry i thought i didn't put it here before Last edited by bin_rodi; 12-28-2006 at 01:20 PM.

12-28-2006, 10:28 PM	#20 (permalink)
chryssanthi sahar Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Heidelberg, Germany Posts: 1,485	Dear Lydia. I understand what you are talking about. Probably if I would live under similar circumstances, I would also not feel the need to talk about religious matters But here in Europe things are different. People talk rather too few than too much about religion and I find it great, that this forum is so multifaceted, so that people who are interested in a topic such as religion have the opportunity to discuss about it. I find the big variety of sub forums really wonderful, it is something for everybody here and that's why I love this forum I wish you a wonderful New Year's Eve and a very happy New Year (and hopefully you'll get to know some people who don't talk only about religion and war ). By the way, my daughter's name is also Lydia __________________ Oriental dancer and instructor of Greek origin, living in Germany www.chryssanthi.com

12-28-2006, 02:10 AM	#11 (permalink)
Rebecca_ Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: on my futon Posts: 106	This is an interesting topic for two reasons: 1) It seems like a lot of religions are not tolerant of bellydance 2) Bellydance is part of religion and/or religious worship for some. So here's my perspective: I was raised Roman Catholic, went to catholic school, and was an altar server in the church up until I went off to college. Nonetheless, I would never let it be known in church that I bellydance. Although there are notable exceptions, I've found that people in my religion tend to be closed minded. Sure, lots of people have all these misconceptions about bellydance, but I'd never get a chance to defend myself to members of my parish. Everyone has a right to believe or not believe what they feel is right, and I wish more people would respect that. Additionally, I find it upsetting how many closed minded and generally unaccepting people exist in the world today. And as for bellydance as part of religion itself, I had a friend who is pagan, and saw bellydance as a sacred(like A'isha said) form of worship of the goddess. So in some cases when people scorn bellydancers on a religious basis they are in fact attempting to suppress other religions.

12-28-2006, 05:12 AM	#12 (permalink)
Gabi Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 317	In keeping with the theme of all being a part of one and one a part of all - this is why I say the way one handles one thing is often the way one handles most everything. As case in point with religions - those religions that do not approve Belly Dance often also do not approve any kind of dance nor many other things that can be found within belly dance, hello Evangelical Christians who don't approve of Yoga either - big time. What is found offensive in dancing is a microcosme or macrocosme of what is found offensive in other aspects of those religions i.e., exhuberant displays especially by women, independence by women, exposure of the body and movement that can be construed as sexual is self explanatory.

12-28-2006, 08:32 AM	#16 (permalink)
Lydia dubai V.I.P. Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Dubai United arab emirates Posts: 1,351	Hi Chrissanty,i am verry much aware of fanatics and religions,and how people think towardts beiing a bellydancer because i live and perform now for more than 25 years in the middle east and hade my share of disapprovel from people around me,so that is not realy it......i dont know how to explain it ,perhaps it,s just me, i feel somehow its taking the passion out of dancing or fun,when you have to think about or connect it with religion...i dont know how to explain it,.....??? sorry i am not very clear on expressing meself on this topic.But perhaps it because i am living in the middle east and so tired from constant beeing confronted with war and religion on a daily base around me ,....So my dancing is realy something so dear to me and a window out of this constant repeating conversations that everybody has around you when you live here,.....Most people dont even have hobby,s here and talking war and religion and it is a daily habbit for most people,from the man in the bakery till the waiters in the restaurant ,my musicians in the dressingroom, enz....So perhaps it,s a personal thing for me,and i was thinking its so cool to have a place where i can escape from it ,a place where people discussing dancing what is our passion....sorry i was just selfish.....i hope you have a great day....and happy dancing hope you are performing newyears eve?? best regards Lydia

12-28-2006, 09:19 PM	#18 (permalink)
Salome Super Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Corvallis, Oregon, USA Posts: 1,842	Greetings, several members told me that the national attitudes toward belly dance topic had been locked. I thought they were mistaken as I just moved it from one forum to another. But it indeed got locked. I'm not sure if I mistakenly did that or another moderator did. Sorry, that was not intentional. In any event This thread topic is a continuence of the previous so it all worked out.