National attitudes to bellydance and bellydancers - Page 13

bin_rodi · 12-26-2006, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarik Sultan

Islam teaches that there can be no complusion in religion, it must come from your heart or your conversion means nothing. However, because people have THEIR OWN AGENDAS and self centered need for power and control, they do things to force people to change and then try to justify it by saying they are doing it for God. That is just one example.

don't propagandize Islam here
this forum is about belly dancing only
moderators should do something about this or i'll have to open a thread to expose Islam to people how it's "peaceful" religion

Aisha Azar · 12-26-2006, 06:37 PM

Dear Bin Rodi,
The lady from Iskandria that I wrote about in a different post is Copt. She and her husband have the little crosses on their wrists to remind them of Blue Bones. (For those of you who want to hear more, please read my "Women in Between" series, under the chapter called "Faten".
Tarik's history is correct. When Constantine the Roman Emperor and others after him were busy uniting the Christian religion and turning it into a political power, they rejected the teachings of the Copts along with many other specifically cultural groups who argued against certain beliefs ( such as the virgin birth and the divinity of Jesus, at what MOMENT he became devine, and other issues central to the teachings of Christianity as we know it now. There is a relatively new book out, called "The Gospel of St. Thomas", which is a pretty good history in its own right, as well as discussing books and gospels left out of the current Bible. The author is a religion scholar who also wrote a book called "The Gnostic Gospels". I can not find my copy of either book at the moment, but they were both very interesting and enlightening for Christians about the physical ( as opposed to metaphysical)history of Christianity.
As for my being a Muslimah, can we please leave it alone now?
Regards,
A'isha

Salome · 12-26-2006, 09:25 PM

Greetings forum members,

I have not looked in on this thread in quite a while and it has certainly grown and taken on many shapes since the original topic question. I think the most appropriate place for it at this point is "The Sauna" so I will be moving the whole thread there.

I know there are many new members to the forum and so I thought it worth mentioning again for our newer members that every member whether they have made one post or one thousand has the right to participate and that everyone has the right to speak freely here as long as we don't treat our fellow/sister members abusively.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bin_rodi

this forum is about belly dancing only
moderators should do something about this or i'll have to open a thread to expose Islam to people how it's "peaceful" religion

You are right, this is a forum about Oriental dance, but because folks have been talking about how religions do or do not impact Oriental dance it's relevant. There is an off topic forum too, where people can discuss any topic and it does not need to relate to dance. If you wanted to start a topic about Islam as a peaceful religion that would be a good forum to do it in.

belly_dancer · 12-26-2006, 09:25 PM

wow... very well stated tarik, cryssanthi ... yes a scary world we are living in... with all these fanantics in power.... A'isha thank you for explaining your research a bit better,,, looking forward to reading your article...
can I say merry christmas (in a very secular way;-)) here????
now that we seem to have changed the thread to national attitudes about religion!
seriously, enjoy all this religious history... (I am weird... history has always been my favorite subject).
but now can we talk about belly dancing?????

bin_rodi · 12-26-2006, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A'isha Azar

Dear Bin Rodi,
The lady from Iskandria that I wrote about in a different post is Copt. She and her husband have the little crosses on their wrists to remind them of Blue Bones. (For those of you who want to hear more, please read my "Women in Between" series, under the chapter called "Faten".

Copts put Tattoo of a cross on their right wrist to remember Jesus and how he hanged by nails from his wrists on the cross as a sacrificing for the human being

"Blue bone" is so impolite word used to humiliate Copts because centuries ago a Muslim ruler forced them to wear a heavy cross in their necks which cause them a tumor in that bone in the shoulder and make it's color to be blue
that's why Muslim in Egypt used to humiliate Copts
so would you please stop mentioning it??

it doesn't mean the cross on the wrist

i think we gone too far from the mean thread subject

and finally i believe that people look to belly dancers as hookers in Muslim world because of Islam rules

agree or not, it's up to you

bye

belly_dancer · 12-26-2006, 11:53 PM

yes, I agree with bin_rodi.... we have gone too far from the main subject...
Also.... maybe he does have the point.... that belly dancers are looked upon with contempt... maybe not JUST because of Islam,,,, but because of most religion.. on another thread a young girl (I believe in mid America?) was called a whore by a church sister, when she found out the girl was taking BD classes.... I think most religions have issues with dance & physical (or maybe ANY kind!) artistic expression..... & of course religion has a huge influence on many people.... (almost as much as the media....)
ooooh that is a good one... how has media influenced peoples "national attitudes" abt BD????

Tarik Sultan · 12-27-2006, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bin_rodi

sorry to drift away of the main subject of the thread, but i it's my duty toward my people and civilization to tell the truth

may i ask you sir this question: where did you got the fact that Christians persecuted the ancient pharaoh believers and defaced their temples in purpose to humiliating them while Christian age in Egypt??? would you give me a link for a non-Muslim web site please tells about this??

you lived in Egypt and among Copts and you say Copts hate and disrespect them, alright it's your right to say what you wish because we are on free forum

but i think, i have the right too to say your statement is not correct at all

you are Muslim right??

I HAVE NEVER DENIED THAT COPTS ARE DISCRIMINATED AGAINST IN EGYPT, THEY ARE AND I AM AGAINST IT. AS A BLACK MAN I AM OFFENDED BY ALL FORMS OF DESCRIMINATION, WHETHER IT BE RACE, SEX, RELIOGION OR CLASS.

To answer your question, no I am not a Muslim. Tarik Sultan is my artistic name. My family are all Christians. A little common sense on your part would have told you that, as I said that at one time I was a member of a fundamentalist christian church.

As for the history of Christianity. I have a B.A. in Ancient History and was a teacher of Ancient history on the high school level....did you graduate high school?. If you had, then you would know that at one time Egypt was a part of the Roman empire and that after the emperor Constantine Christianity became the official religion of the empire. In 383 A.D, the emperor Theoodocius officially made the worship of pagan Gods illegal. ITS A FACT! If that isn't forced conversion what is?

As bad as Muslim treatmrent of christians may be today, and I do agree that it is bad, they have never made christianity illegal, nor does the Koran say that christianity is illegal.

The Ancient religion continued to be practiced in the temple at Phile which was dedicated to the worship of Isis and Horus. in the 6th century A.D. the temple was forcefully closed by the army and the temple was converted to a church of the Virgin Mary. If you go to Phile, as I have done, you will see that many of the faces of thge goddes have been defaced and crosses chisled into them. You can see this sort of vandalism in the temples and statues all over Egypt.

I will not give you any links. go to the library, or a bookstore, pick up a book.

Tarik Sultan · 12-27-2006, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bin_rodi

don't propagandize Islam here
this forum is about belly dancing only
moderators should do something about this or i'll have to open a thread to expose Islam to people how it's "peaceful" religion

It is obvious to me and all present that you are a hatefilled angry person. I would seek help, spiritual and emotional.

Jesus said-Love your neighbor as you love yourself

Jesus said-Love your enemy

Jesus said- If a man strike you on you cheek give him the other one

Jesus said- bless those who curse you.

Jesus's main message was about LOVE.

I resent you using this forum to spread your hatred of Muslims. Its just wrong and out of place

Tarik Sultan · 12-27-2006, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bin_rodi

and finally i believe that people look to belly dancers as hookers in Muslim world because of Islam rules

agree or not, it's up to you

bye

The fact is that Coptic Christians believe the same thing about dancers. How many Christians do you see dancing in Egypt?

TribalDancer · 12-27-2006, 01:09 AM

Hey fellow dance fans and friends!

I am enjoying this debate very much (that is why they made me the moderator of the debate forum after all!), but this topic has strayed too far from the original topic. If you would like to continue this discussion, please begin a new thread addressing the topics you would like to discuss, but this thread is not he place for a religious debate.

And if you do start another thread, it is important that we discuss the topic, and not the people behind the posts. No personal attacks or comments. Discuss the topic, not the person. One last time: discuss the topic, not the person.

12-26-2006, 06:37 PM	#122 (permalink)
Aisha Azar V.I.P. Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Pacific Northwest USA Posts: 4,518	Attitudes, etc. Dear Bin Rodi, The lady from Iskandria that I wrote about in a different post is Copt. She and her husband have the little crosses on their wrists to remind them of Blue Bones. (For those of you who want to hear more, please read my "Women in Between" series, under the chapter called "Faten". Tarik's history is correct. When Constantine the Roman Emperor and others after him were busy uniting the Christian religion and turning it into a political power, they rejected the teachings of the Copts along with many other specifically cultural groups who argued against certain beliefs ( such as the virgin birth and the divinity of Jesus, at what MOMENT he became devine, and other issues central to the teachings of Christianity as we know it now. There is a relatively new book out, called "The Gospel of St. Thomas", which is a pretty good history in its own right, as well as discussing books and gospels left out of the current Bible. The author is a religion scholar who also wrote a book called "The Gnostic Gospels". I can not find my copy of either book at the moment, but they were both very interesting and enlightening for Christians about the physical ( as opposed to metaphysical)history of Christianity. As for my being a Muslimah, can we please leave it alone now? Regards, A'isha

12-26-2006, 09:25 PM	#124 (permalink)
belly_dancer Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: central coast, California Posts: 569	wow... very well stated tarik, cryssanthi ... yes a scary world we are living in... with all these fanantics in power.... A'isha thank you for explaining your research a bit better,,, looking forward to reading your article... can I say merry christmas (in a very secular way;-)) here???? now that we seem to have changed the thread to national attitudes about religion! seriously, enjoy all this religious history... (I am weird... history has always been my favorite subject). but now can we talk about belly dancing?????

12-26-2006, 11:53 PM	#126 (permalink)
belly_dancer Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: central coast, California Posts: 569	yes, I agree with bin_rodi.... we have gone too far from the main subject... Also.... maybe he does have the point.... that belly dancers are looked upon with contempt... maybe not JUST because of Islam,,,, but because of most religion.. on another thread a young girl (I believe in mid America?) was called a whore by a church sister, when she found out the girl was taking BD classes.... I think most religions have issues with dance & physical (or maybe ANY kind!) artistic expression..... & of course religion has a huge influence on many people.... (almost as much as the media....) ooooh that is a good one... how has media influenced peoples "national attitudes" abt BD????

12-27-2006, 01:09 AM	#130 (permalink)
TribalDancer Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 313	Hey fellow dance fans and friends! I am enjoying this debate very much (that is why they made me the moderator of the debate forum after all!), but this topic has strayed too far from the original topic. If you would like to continue this discussion, please begin a new thread addressing the topics you would like to discuss, but this thread is not he place for a religious debate. And if you do start another thread, it is important that we discuss the topic, and not the people behind the posts. No personal attacks or comments. Discuss the topic, not the person. One last time: discuss the topic, not the person.