FCBD "Who We Are"

TribalDancer · 07-31-2008, 02:25 AM

This video is from 1997, with Carolena talking about what ATS is and is not, and her theories about some of the evolution of the dance. I thought it would be valuable to link here, with all the talk about what is authentic and what is not, and more specifically who claims to be authentic and who is honest about what they do. Carolena has always been honest about what she does, and I admire that. Enjoy!

Mosaic · 07-31-2008, 04:58 AM

Thank you tribalDancer, that was awesome.

I love ATS Tribal, one day I hope to find a clss so I can learn, not that I would stop dancing what I call "classical"

, I'd love to be able to do both.
~Mosaic

Maria_Aya · 07-31-2008, 09:03 AM

Ohh she is great !!!
And I love teqnology !!!
5 months ago when we had the theory lesson in my school and I presented to students personalities of Oriental Dance in general and different styles, I had this actual video and we connected computer with Plasma TV and we all saw it and discussed about it.
And we are happy that Carolena is greek rooted !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maria Aya

Aisha Azar · 07-31-2008, 01:36 PM

While I found her information on the history of belly dance to be pretty much in error, ( It IS traceable to times, places and even specific people in some areas of the world.), I do very much appreciate that she is honest about tribal not being authentic. And I also do not think it is "obviously" belly dance either. There is much that I disagreed with in her commentary. American Tribal simply utilizes some of the same movement families, but the feeling, essence and spirit of the dance are nothing akin to belly dance. Hula, Samba, and belly dance are entirely different dances, with different purposes, from different cultures yet they use some of the same movements. This is how I feel about Tribal as well. I also find the basic posture worrisome.....
Regards,
A'isha

TribalDancer · 07-31-2008, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aisha Azar

I also find the basic posture worrisome.....
Regards,
A'isha

Just FYI, Carolena is swaybacked. So her posture looks extreme. Again, ignorant baby dancers don't listen to what she SAYS and just emulates what they think they are seeing. That is where the uber-arched baby dancers claim they are being "tribal" when they do these dramatic swaybacked poses. Actually tribal posture is not that far from typical bellydance posture, maybe a bit more exaggerated (more lifted in the rib cage, framing more extremely lifted and lightly tension filled, definitely lower center of gravity).

Since my very first tribal workshop, good strong posture was emphasized to me. Not everyone listens or understands, and that whole "bad teacher" thread (what is damaging to the dance) is another issue that perpetuates the misinformation.

Aisha Azar · 07-31-2008, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TribalDancer

Just FYI, Carolena is swaybacked. So her posture looks extreme. Again, ignorant baby dancers don't listen to what she SAYS and just emulates what they think they are seeing. That is where the uber-arched baby dancers claim they are being "tribal" when they do these dramatic swaybacked poses. Actually tribal posture is not that far from typical bellydance posture, maybe a bit more exaggerated (more lifted in the rib cage, framing more extremely lifted and lightly tension filled, definitely lower center of gravity).

Since my very first tribal workshop, good strong posture was emphasized to me. Not everyone listens or understands, and that whole "bad teacher" thread (what is damaging to the dance) is another issue that perpetuates the misinformation.

Dear Sharon,
In watching your dance company perform, I did notice that you did not seem to have the extreme posture that the members of FCBD have. It does not seem to be just Carolina but all of the FCBD. You seemed more upright. Right now I have a private student who is coming to me from a tribal background and she is having a lot of trouble going from the arched posture to the more straight over the center of the body posture that is basic to Egyptian style. I am not sure who her instructors have been.
I would be interested to hear what you think about Rachel Brice as she uses this posture a lot and seems even more extreme than Carolina. When they do those swaying back bends with what appears to be almost no support from the lower body, it almost makes me want to scream. It seems so dangerous.
Regards,
A'isha

TribalDancer · 07-31-2008, 11:46 PM

Rachel Brice...well...tough to say. I guess I can start by saying that I don't know if she is sway-backed. But I do know that she is extremely strong and flexible, with an inordinately long torso.

Additionally, she is known to say "do what I say, not what I do." So she will tell people not to do extreme laybacks and Turkish drops, and aknowledges they are dangerous and nobody should be doing them, but she continues to do them herself. So swaybacked or not, she may be performing one way and teaching another. I cannot say for sure since I haven't taken from her anytime recently. But I do remember her teaching good posture in the workshops I took back in 2000/2001 timeframe. But what she does is another matter, whether she is swaybacked or does it by choice. If it is the latter, it is quite possible it doesn't hurt her, given her 20 years of yoga and extremely lithe and strong body.

Either way, students who adore you, as hers do with sycophantic phangirldom, will do what you DO. They want to look like her and be like her. And so long as she continues to perform what she says is dangerous, they will continue to try and emulate her. And you will continue to see droves of tribal dancers sporting the bad posture, and later, when they get a good teacher who helps correct them as you have, they will discover they were doing it wrong all along.

I will say that it is commonly associated with tribal posture, this look, but I have had many students from other classes of all styles come to me with various posture issues, knee/joint problems, etc, and just teaching them good strong posture was the road to recovery for them. So a teacher demonstrating bad posture is a bad teacher, regardless of style!! I feel sorry for students who are injured as a result of misinformation!

Aisha Azar · 07-31-2008, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TribalDancer

Rachel Brice...well...tough to say. I guess I can start by saying that I don't know if she is sway-backed. But I do know that she is extremely strong and flexible, with an inordinately long torso.

Additionally, she is known to say "do what I say, not what I do." So she will tell people not to do extreme laybacks and Turkish drops, and aknowledges they are dangerous and nobody should be doing them, but she continues to do them herself. So swaybacked or not, she may be performing one way and teaching another. I cannot say for sure since I haven't taken from her anytime recently. But I do remember her teaching good posture in the workshops I took back in 2000/2001 timeframe. But what she does is another matter, whether she is swaybacked or does it by choice. If it is the latter, it is quite possible it doesn't hurt her, given her 20 years of yoga and extremely lithe and strong body.

Either way, students who adore you, as hers do with sycophantic phangirldom, will do what you DO. They want to look like her and be like her. And so long as she continues to perform what she says is dangerous, they will continue to try and emulate her. And you will continue to see droves of tribal dancers sporting the bad posture, and later, when they get a good teacher who helps correct them as you have, they will discover they were doing it wrong all along.

I will say that it is commonly associated with tribal posture, this look, but I have had many students from other classes of all styles come to me with various posture issues, knee/joint problems, etc, and just teaching them good strong posture was the road to recovery for them. So a teacher demonstrating bad posture is a bad teacher, regardless of style!! I feel sorry for students who are injured as a result of misinformation!

Dear Sharon,
Thanks for your take on this. I agree that any teacher who is demonstrating bad posture is not a good teacher and that certainly is regardless of dance style!
Regards,
A'isha

Durrah · 08-03-2008, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TribalDancer

Rachel Brice...well...tough to say. I guess I can start by saying that I don't know if she is sway-backed. But I do know that she is extremely strong and flexible, with an inordinately long torso.

Additionally, she is known to say "do what I say, not what I do." So she will tell people not to do extreme laybacks and Turkish drops, and aknowledges they are dangerous and nobody should be doing them, but she continues to do them herself. So swaybacked or not, she may be performing one way and teaching another. I cannot say for sure since I haven't taken from her anytime recently. But I do remember her teaching good posture in the workshops I took back in 2000/2001 timeframe. But what she does is another matter, whether she is swaybacked or does it by choice. If it is the latter, it is quite possible it doesn't hurt her, given her 20 years of yoga and extremely lithe and strong body.

I just took a workshop from Rachel a few months ago, and she's been very big on trying to be more gentle to her body. She claimed to be feeling her age

She does teach good posture. Carolena definitely does not teach the swayback posture either, and Megha is quite upright when she dances. But if you look at Megha, her shoulders are very narrow, so it looks like she's holding her arms much more closely together (when upright, in an Egyptian, for example), than she really is. Body types can alter how a posture or move appears. Good teachers really are important.

Durrah · 08-03-2008, 07:28 PM

Here's a recent FCBD performance:
YouTube - FatChanceBellyDance at Cues and Tattoos Part 1

And at Tribal Fest 8:
YouTube - Tribal Fest 8 - FatChanceBellyDance with Carolena Nericcio

07-31-2008, 02:25 AM	#1 (permalink)
TribalDancer Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 313	FCBD "Who We Are" This video is from 1997, with Carolena talking about what ATS is and is not, and her theories about some of the evolution of the dance. I thought it would be valuable to link here, with all the talk about what is authentic and what is not, and more specifically who claims to be authentic and who is honest about what they do. Carolena has always been honest about what she does, and I admire that. Enjoy!

07-31-2008, 04:58 AM	#2 (permalink)
Mosaic Moderator Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Melbourne Australia, but a Kiwi Posts: 880	Thank you tribalDancer, that was awesome. I love ATS Tribal, one day I hope to find a clss so I can learn, not that I would stop dancing what I call "classical", I'd love to be able to do both. ~Mosaic

07-31-2008, 09:03 AM	#3 (permalink)
Maria_Aya Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Athens, Greece Posts: 2,254	Ohh she is great !!! And I love teqnology !!! 5 months ago when we had the theory lesson in my school and I presented to students personalities of Oriental Dance in general and different styles, I had this actual video and we connected computer with Plasma TV and we all saw it and discussed about it. And we are happy that Carolena is greek rooted !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Maria Aya __________________ ... www.orientalexpression.gr

07-31-2008, 01:36 PM	#4 (permalink)
Aisha Azar V.I.P. Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Pacific Northwest USA Posts: 4,518	Tribal While I found her information on the history of belly dance to be pretty much in error, ( It IS traceable to times, places and even specific people in some areas of the world.), I do very much appreciate that she is honest about tribal not being authentic. And I also do not think it is "obviously" belly dance either. There is much that I disagreed with in her commentary. American Tribal simply utilizes some of the same movement families, but the feeling, essence and spirit of the dance are nothing akin to belly dance. Hula, Samba, and belly dance are entirely different dances, with different purposes, from different cultures yet they use some of the same movements. This is how I feel about Tribal as well. I also find the basic posture worrisome..... Regards, A'isha Last edited by Aisha Azar; 07-31-2008 at 01:46 PM.

07-31-2008, 11:46 PM	#7 (permalink)
TribalDancer Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 313	Rachel Brice...well...tough to say. I guess I can start by saying that I don't know if she is sway-backed. But I do know that she is extremely strong and flexible, with an inordinately long torso. Additionally, she is known to say "do what I say, not what I do." So she will tell people not to do extreme laybacks and Turkish drops, and aknowledges they are dangerous and nobody should be doing them, but she continues to do them herself. So swaybacked or not, she may be performing one way and teaching another. I cannot say for sure since I haven't taken from her anytime recently. But I do remember her teaching good posture in the workshops I took back in 2000/2001 timeframe. But what she does is another matter, whether she is swaybacked or does it by choice. If it is the latter, it is quite possible it doesn't hurt her, given her 20 years of yoga and extremely lithe and strong body. Either way, students who adore you, as hers do with sycophantic phangirldom, will do what you DO. They want to look like her and be like her. And so long as she continues to perform what she says is dangerous, they will continue to try and emulate her. And you will continue to see droves of tribal dancers sporting the bad posture, and later, when they get a good teacher who helps correct them as you have, they will discover they were doing it wrong all along. I will say that it is commonly associated with tribal posture, this look, but I have had many students from other classes of all styles come to me with various posture issues, knee/joint problems, etc, and just teaching them good strong posture was the road to recovery for them. So a teacher demonstrating bad posture is a bad teacher, regardless of style!! I feel sorry for students who are injured as a result of misinformation!

08-03-2008, 07:28 PM	#10 (permalink)
Durrah Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Chesapeake, VA Posts: 17	Here's a recent FCBD performance: YouTube - FatChanceBellyDance at Cues and Tattoos Part 1 And at Tribal Fest 8: YouTube - Tribal Fest 8 - FatChanceBellyDance with Carolena Nericcio