Farasha Hanem

Is there a separate thread somewhere in this forum concerning people with swaybacks? As I mentioned before in another thread somewhere here, a few months ago, my physical therapist asked me if I'd had scholiosis (sp?) as a child. I can't do the splits worth a hoot, but when I began bellydancing, backbends just seemed to come natural to me, and it doesn't hurt at all. I suppose I'm doing them correctly, because my teacher has never criticized my execution, and she watches us like a hawk. Am I weird?

If there's a separate thread concerning swayback and its problems, please let me know; I could use the info. Thank you.

Durrah

Fair point here. ATS is heavily influenced by flamenco. Rina Rall even joined a flamenco company after leaving FCBD.

Aisha Azar

Dear Gang,
We are not taking into account one thing about the posture. In Flamenco, the body moves in such a sway as to be supported by that arched through the upper back kind posture. The movements done in Tribal or in belly dance are not conducive to being supported by this posture. Fifi Abdou used an upper back arch, but she also was dynamic in her use of posture, so that this was a place she came back to rather than a place that she moved from continuously.
Regards,
A'isha

Aziyade

Hahaha! Does it count if I REALLY like the coin and assuit look?

I'm all for tattoos, but I can't think of anything that really means that much to me that I want to see it everyday. I have such a short attention span, I get bored with henna. LOL.

Aziyade

Having a marked arch in the upper or lower back doesn't necessarily entail a problem. The goal in healthy posture is to get a NEUTRAL spine, which is a balance between the 12 (cervical and lumbar) vertebrae with the 12 thoracic vertebrae.

If the thoracic (kyphotic) curve is large, then the other (lordotic) curve can also be large, without necessarily causing an imbalance. The pelvis seems to be the determiner here. If the lumbar spine is aligned in relation to the pelvis, and the pelvis is balanced in relation to the legs, then you probably have what would be considered a neutral spinal position.

Of course, if you have a big butt, it can make the lordotic curve look more extreme than it is

A lot "swayback" people experience pain in the low back when doing a weight-bearing exercise like walking. If you don't have pain, and you don't have a corresponding weakness in the abs, you may not have a problem being "swayback."


Also, I'm no Tribal expert, but I fail to see how any of the movements Carolena taught on her video have anything to do with being "supported" by the upper back arch. The only place where I can see this having a physical effect would be in spinning, because the arched spine creates a center of gravity that is higher and more forward than a regular neutral posture, and I can see it throwing you off if you aren't used to it. Also, since the back is already contracted, you may have to work harder to get a "chest lift."

If you're arching the upper back and you can't do hip work without feeling it pull in the low back, then you're doing the arch wrong.

Aisha Azar

That's right, the movements are not supported by the back, or the pelvis, or any other part of the body, as is natural in dance which is going to torque the spine in the way that some belly dance movement does. The posture is an exaggeration for most people and therefore creates tension in all kinds of places. It does not take a "wrong" sort of arching of the upper back to do this, as many tribal dancers can tell you, I have had them come to my class complaining about backache, etc, and how difficult the posture is on them. They do not all come fr9om the same teacher and they can not ALL be "doing it 'wrong". The upper arch pulls energy and muscles into the upper body, making it less grounded through the pelvis, taking support away from the pelvis and all movement that come from that region of the body. Standing that way does not cause a "pull" in the lower back. It causes a cramp. If you don't believe me try standing that way for awhile.

TribalDancer

Keep in mind that in tribal, we are flat-footed, and low center of gravity most of the time. When the tailbone is released, and the weight shifts gently back toward the heels, it brings the shoulders and hips in alignment, with the vertical center of gravity further toward the back of center than dancers who work constantly in their toes may be used to.

In any case, I have been dancing this dance for going on 9 years now, and have been teaching it for 7 years, and have yet to have someone have issues with their back, spinning, or otherwise. It seems to work out. Just because it wasn't done "this way" before doesn't mean it is damaging or doesn't work for this new stylistic version of this dance!

Aisha Azar

Dear Sharon,
You also have stated that you do not use the same arch as Carolina Nerriccio and many others. That arch actually compresses the back muscles and spine as it opens the torso and pelvis, making it very difficult to center in the pelvis. Whether or not the dance is done on the flat foot or on the toes. it just tips things in a strange way!
Your group does not seem to have that same arch to the upper back. You seem to dance much more centered in the pelvis, actually, so it would make sense that you do not experience back pain. However, you also seem to be rather unique in that....
Regards,
A'isha

Shanazel

I adore the tassles and turbans and tattoos and the whole glorious earthy nine yards of tribal. I love to watch good tribal performed and always have the desire to leap up and participate, but alas, I'd merely make an old-style AmCab fool of myself if I did so. On me, a turban looks like an elaborate shower cap.

Aisha Azar

Dear Shanazel,
You have my sympathies. I look like a Pinhead whenever I have to wear a mid-20th century Ghawazi taaj! Fortunately, I have several company members who enjoy the dance do a good Ghawazi, and look great in the costumes, even down to the dark curly haired wigs under that head gear!
Regards,
A'isha