maariku

Serpentessa, I love your philosophy towards teating animals. But I personally really don't like the idea of using snakes, or any other animals for that matter in any acts. Then again, I am put off by many human attepts to put animals into use - zoos, circuses, camel rides for tourists in Egypt, even the way some people keep their pets. I know that it may seem hypocritical, as I really do love some of the pets and I am not even a vegetarian. But I get an immense feel of guilt when I see an animal who I am not sure it is happy.

But now, as for props in dancing... I don't know much about the authenticity part, but I prefer most of the props to be more of the "decoration" than the content of the dance. And no prop can replace the soul

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"[A good bellydancer] must express life, death, happiness, sorrow, love and anger, but above all she must have dignity." -Tahia Carioca,

Serpentessa

Hi Maariku,

I agree, no prop can replace the soul. When you dance with a snake, it is an inter-species dance, meaning there are two souls creating a dance as a duet. So some of us might say 2 souls are better than one! :-)

"I know that it may seem hypocritical, as I really do love some of the pets and I am not even a vegetarian."

I wouldn't say it's hypocritical of you to have your feelings. Earth is a world full of paradox. The biggest paradox being that life feeds on life. Rather than hypocritical, I'd say you have defined for yourself your way of being reverent within that paradox.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

Serpentessa

Brea

Hello all,

I didn't even notice this thread until today! Lydia, please send me photos of your beautiful eagle!!! Hello again Serpentessa!

I have had pets all my life; rescued and rehomed them, even volunteered as a wildlife rescue worker. I love animals. That said I don't think that having animals as pets/in shows/at zoos is necessarily an abusive behavior. I think it can often be, but I don't think that in itself it is a horrible torturous thing people are doing to animals.

For instance: many of these snakes that snake dancers use are rescued snakes who would not have had a home otherwise. Suddenly they are being well fed and taken care of as a dance partner...I just don't see how it makes for animal abuse. Again, as Serpentessa said, not all dancers do it right...I strive to be one of them.

PM me Serpentessa; I'd love to talk snakes!

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www.breamorgiane.com

jen28

I agree with you. I am very uneasy with using animals as props or in shows (I also don't like zoos, pets, or keeping animals in captivity). I think it sends the wrong message to the public- that snakes aren't "real" animals and are here for our amusement and entertainment. Snakes are wild creatures and belong in the wild, not on our dancing bodies. Yea, you can try to use snake dancing as a method of animal welfare outreach, but I think there are much better ways of accomplishing that.
Sorry I jumped into this so late, and I hope I don't get flamed too badly.....

Aziyade

I haven't seen a lot of bellydance with fans -- Meleah is the only person who comes to mind, and it's been ages since I've seen her videos.

I have seen some Ottoman-Tableau like pieces, where the dancers have held and manipulated a fly-whisk (which is sort of a fan). The prop was not the focus of the dance, though.

Fans have a long history in Spanish dance, and they got absorbed into Flamenco some time ago. Actually, most of the fan dancing bellydancing that I can remember had a definite Spanish flavor to it.

Oh but you haven't seen my baby do a Conga with me! LOL. I've been trying to get him to perform with me for ages, but we're still negotiating his MilkBone per diem.


Classic old black and white movie concept. Huge drum acts as your stage. Think about all the goofy stuff in the old American movie musicals. If we did it, the Egyptians did it in their movies.

A more practical version of this is dancing on the head of a 17" tabla. Sort of like the old dancing on water goblets concept. I think this is cute. In small doses.


Tunisian, authentically. I was told (by Habiba) they did this to show off the quality of the magnificent pottery, more so than the dancer's skills.

The rest of the "pot dances" I think we chalk up to Reda, and we can argue for days whether or not (and the degree of which) those are "authentic" ethnic dances.

Today you see dancers using the pot as USUALLY some part of a beledi or "folk/fellahin" style dance. I think they use the pot as a symbol of the peasant class, and all the wonderful simplicity and honesty of that lifestyle. (Insert sarcasm here.) But I think that all stems from Reda, and the driving impetus of the Reda Troupe to portray Egyptian culture as harmless and sweet, and very very open to the West.

sausanacademy

Hi:

Props are probably the only thing that gets my goat in this dance.

I'm a die-hard Egyptian style dancer, and the only props I ever see in Egyptian dance are the veil, stick, cane, finger cymbals, and the sword--sometimes. Oh, yes, the candelabra and water jugs. (Can't think of any other but I'm sure someone with let me know. )

Snakes have never been used, and the sword has been used only held by the grip and never balanced on any part of the body. So, balanced sword balancing is really not part of Egyptian dance.

Oh, yes...the knife, or dagger, has also been used, at least in the movie "Lemby" starring Mohamed Sa'ad and Abla Kamel. Abla Kamel is the one who danced with the kitchen knife. Funny movie. Mohamed Sa'ad does one heck of a dance in this movie!!!

-Sausan

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The Pain, the Passion, the Joy; Dancing with "Nephis"

sausanacademy

This is correct. One scene that comes to mind is the scene with Samia Gamal and a flute (ney) player. There are six huge tambourines propped up against the back stage. As the music progresses, two tambourines are lit up at a time to show the silhouette of a dancer behind them. After all six tambourines get lit up, the dancers step out onto a HUGE drum-like stage where Samia is bent over on her knees waiting for them to come down to start her dance. It's truly lovely.

It's on Volume 4 of my Samia Gamal Dancing in Egyptian Film series.

-Sausan

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The Pain, the Passion, the Joy; Dancing with "Nephis"

Shamsa

i loved that scene too!
Samia Gamal was a wonderful dancer!

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a belly dancer is a queen, and queens never go on the floor.

jenc

What do you all think of veil poi or veil fan. In my mind that's a fusion too far

Mosaic

I believe all things change, nothing is static, so BD is not immune to change. Seeing that its origins stem from the times when people were nomadic and used/still used as a means to celebrate various events, or for just a good old get together. I am sure as the people traversed their trails trading, seeking pasture for stock etc, they would have met with other caravans and as humans are wont to do, would have learnt various steps/movements from each other and thus their own traditional dances would take on something new and different ... therefore change took place. Today change moves at a faster pace, with travel, and technology we have change at our fingertips daily. Props may have come through from various non- ME cultures and ME cultures, and some bright enterprising BD'er may see that the use of a prop can add a dimension to the dance that enhances the dancer and dance. If used and incorporated to maintain the essence of belly dance and the music, keeping the passion and heart of the dance 'true', I don't see that it degrades or takes away from the dance at all. I am not sure that dogs/cats/horses/tigers etc ( just a wee bit too circusey for me) fit that well into the dance But the serpent, veils, jugs/jars/trays/baskets of flowers/ fans/voi ( poi-veil)/sword all look great when the dancer uses them well. Most have their origins in traditional dances from around the world. Maybe dancing a whole set with props could be too much, but from the little I have seen of props, most dancers use them appropriately.

Just my 2 cents worth

Lydia, I think your basket of flowers and handing out flowers sounds wonderful and as for your bird, that must have been something, would loved to have see that
~Mosaic