What about Tribal? - Page 4

sedoniaraqs · 04-17-2008, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jenc

I For me you can't really interpret the industrial style music of tribal.

Well, but tribal has evolved into so many things that there are few to no defining characteristics of "tribal", including the music used. Fat Chance Belly Dance and the earlier roots of ATS were using mostly North African folkloric music.

But yeah, some of what gets used in some styles...I never laughed so hard as when I read one bhuzzer referring to the new tribal music as sounding like "robots farting angrily during a car crash".

Aniseteph · 04-17-2008, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sedoniaraqs

But yeah, some of what gets used in some styles...I never laughed so hard as when I read one bhuzzer referring to the new tribal music as sounding like "robots farting angrily during a car crash".

LOL!

Some sounds like malfunctioning plumbing to me. Our downstairs loo used to make very industrial avant-garde noises in the small hours of the morning and wake me up.

Amber · 04-23-2008, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jenc

I don't like the music. I started out thinking that tribal was what I liked when I had a very fairylike teacher, but I have moved over to egyptian because I like the fluidity and the interpretation of the music. For me you can't really interpret the industrial style music of tribal. I also don't fid tribal to be earthy. i find egyptian to be far more sexy as I like to use the whole body, and not isolate everything. however, I do like to drill tribal style movements, as starting late in life, I find that tribal teachers and dvds really give me the muscle strength to dance any way i want to

This is exactly how Im starting to feel as of late.

When I first got into Belly dance the people around me were leading me to believe that "tribal" style BD was the "true" belly dance and that the oriental styles (egyptian, turkish, lebonese etc) were all somehow "fake". LOL.

It couldnt be further from the truth.

Did I also mention that these are the kind of folks who still believe belly dancers are some kind of magical fairy princess/strip tease/orientalist fantasy etc etc...

Now that Im starting to learn the real significance behind the dance... and Im beginning to learn that theres more to it than crowie shells and snake arms.... Im finding myself more and more drawn to Egyptian style.

Makeda Maysa · 04-23-2008, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amber

This is exactly how Im starting to feel as of late.

When I first got into Belly dance the people around me were leading me to believe that "tribal" style BD was the "true" belly dance and that the oriental styles (egyptian, turkish, lebonese etc) were all somehow "fake". LOL.

It couldnt be further from the truth.

Did I also mention that these are the kind of folks who still believe belly dancers are some kind of magical fairy princess/strip tease/orientalist fantasy etc etc...

Now that Im starting to learn the real significance behind the dance... and Im beginning to learn that theres more to it than crowie shells and snake arms.... Im finding myself more and more drawn to Egyptian style.

It's really sad that those were the people with which you came into contact. Tribal style bellydance (in whatever form, be it ATS or tribal fusion) is a viable and worthy dance form unto itself, without having to disparage Middle Eastern dance. I understand your being drawn to Egyptian bellydance, as I am, too, but it really seems as if you weren't introduced properly to tribal dance and those people should be ashamed of their lack of knowledge.

jenc · 04-23-2008, 07:22 PM

I think that amazingly a whole lot of people (self included) start BD lessons without ever having seen any. They are then led to believe that egyptian is just the basic moves that they learn in beginners and tribal is added value by including moves from india, flamenco etc.
They never get to know that egyptian is multi-layered, deceptively simple. They don't realise that a real egyptian dancer can simultaneoulsy make everything look easy and how the .... did she do that. They never get to know just how much there is to learn...

This is not to do down tribal. most people just don't realise how different tribal and egyptian are, because they are not being taught either with sufficient rigor: or passion.

lizaj · 04-24-2008, 08:31 AM

Students are going straight to tribalin some areas and I know this has happened in the US, completely bipassing Egyptian or Turkish style belly dance.
I try to resist teaching basic ATS until we have got a grip of Egyptian and then progressing with both. But of course I remind my pupils they need to go to other teachers, to workshops to do this dance justice anyway.
But with a constant influx of beginners I end up with them doing tribal from day one. I teach an hour and half lesson with tribal drill in the last half hour and that is optional for students but they all stay! I can hardly tell newcomers to "p$ss off , this ain't for you!"
The thing with tribal is that most of the women ( no guys as yet)find the notion of set moves, cues as well as the image of tribal attractive. Older and less body perfect gals are comfortable with the covered, earthy whatever you want to call it clothing and frankly my young slim things like the funkiness!( see Sharon's discussion on her website on ATS costuming...it rings so true)
Egyptian is my number one but you have to give 'em what they want. ATS?Tribal Fusion is a Western creation and maybe that is why so many in Britain and elsewhere are attracted to it, maybe it suits our mind set. And in anycase it is a group dance and belly dancers dance in groupshere in the West. Raks Sharki is a solo performance even though we bop around in our group dances being so unauthentic.
In actual fact I don't think we should call these variations on a theme belly dance at all. Unless we are trying to dance as they do in Egypt, Turkey or the Lebanon, maybe should call tribal belly dance just ATS, Tribal Fusion, World Fusion..whatever. That doesn't mean we have to never be in each others presence and doesn't mean we never acknowledge the origins of tribal belly dance.

jenc · 04-24-2008, 11:52 AM

I am not against tribal as such. I would consider ATS if there was a tribe near me. Although I have to say I find it rather samey to watch, but I am sure that it is more fun to take part. What I don't like are the industrial/heavy hip hop music and the more energetic style of fusin. In fact I was attending a local class as a filler until my teacher returns. Then the vagaries of easter holiday led to me having a whole month off (2 weeks the teacher and 2 weeks my hol). In the meantime I had downloaded the music and after listening to the Turkish Hip Hop for several times without dancing to it, I concluded that I had no inclination to go on dancing to it. I have no desire to do squats, knee bends, do the long hair brushing floor thingy with my short grey locks etc.

I do also realise that what we do as Egyptian is very much not aythentic (at my level of troupe dancing, but I feel that I prefer grace, playfulness and a less in-your-face sensuality, and I long to be able to take this further. It sometmes feels as thuogh opportunities to do this are disappearing in this country.

lizaj · 04-24-2008, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jenc

I am not against tribal as such. I would consider ATS if there was a tribe near me. Although I have to say I find it rather samey to watch, but I am sure that it is more fun to take part. What I don't like are the industrial/heavy hip hop music and the more energetic style of fusin. In fact I was attending a local class as a filler until my teacher returns. Then the vagaries of easter holiday led to me having a whole month off (2 weeks the teacher and 2 weeks my hol). In the meantime I had downloaded the music and after listening to the Turkish Hip Hop for several times without dancing to it, I concluded that I had no inclination to go on dancing to it. I have no desire to do squats, knee bends, do the long hair brushing floor thingy with my short grey locks etc.

I do also realise that what we do as Egyptian is very much not aythentic (at my level of troupe dancing, but I feel that I prefer grace, playfulness and a less in-your-face sensuality, and I long to be able to take this further. It sometmes feels as thuogh opportunities to do this are disappearing in this country.

I do personally feel that the industrial solo tribal often robotic fused has moved far out of the belly dance stable but done well it can be very entertaining and (SHRUG) it's all horses for courses. One of my students is setting up a class wanting to do it but she acknowledges the fact that it will only appeal to certain dancers and she is going to drill basic belly dance as a foundation. I 'm just happy that no one will expect me to attempt to do it. I know my limitations and stick to workshop training I know I will make progress with.

gypsyroze · 04-29-2008, 09:18 PM

I'm mostly into tribal and folkloric, however getting the basics in Egyptian and Cabaret is never a bad thing. I was getting into tribal hardcore, but had to stop dancing for about 2 yrs due to school and other things. I've just started attending classes again, and I went straight to my Egyptian style instructor, just to begin to get back into shape.

My instructor told me that once the girls got the basics down, the just went tribal and really don't attend her classes anymore, but she mentioned that they studied for a few years before going completely tribal.

Atalanta · 05-08-2008, 08:02 PM

I, like many who took their first classes in the '90's, started with Egyptian from Habiba. Now (after a few years slacking off) I am taking ATS classes. I study with two instructors, both are mainly tribal improv, though the Sunday class instructors are in a goth troupe. I'm leaning more toward tribal fusion myself.

04-23-2008, 07:22 PM	#35 (permalink)
jenc V.I.P. Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Colchester UK Posts: 1,050	I think that amazingly a whole lot of people (self included) start BD lessons without ever having seen any. They are then led to believe that egyptian is just the basic moves that they learn in beginners and tribal is added value by including moves from india, flamenco etc. They never get to know that egyptian is multi-layered, deceptively simple. They don't realise that a real egyptian dancer can simultaneoulsy make everything look easy and how the .... did she do that. They never get to know just how much there is to learn... This is not to do down tribal. most people just don't realise how different tribal and egyptian are, because they are not being taught either with sufficient rigor: or passion.

04-24-2008, 08:31 AM	#36 (permalink)
lizaj Moderator Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: UK Posts: 1,288	Students are going straight to tribalin some areas and I know this has happened in the US, completely bipassing Egyptian or Turkish style belly dance. I try to resist teaching basic ATS until we have got a grip of Egyptian and then progressing with both. But of course I remind my pupils they need to go to other teachers, to workshops to do this dance justice anyway. But with a constant influx of beginners I end up with them doing tribal from day one. I teach an hour and half lesson with tribal drill in the last half hour and that is optional for students but they all stay! I can hardly tell newcomers to "p$ss off , this ain't for you!" The thing with tribal is that most of the women ( no guys as yet)find the notion of set moves, cues as well as the image of tribal attractive. Older and less body perfect gals are comfortable with the covered, earthy whatever you want to call it clothing and frankly my young slim things like the funkiness!( see Sharon's discussion on her website on ATS costuming...it rings so true) Egyptian is my number one but you have to give 'em what they want. ATS?Tribal Fusion is a Western creation and maybe that is why so many in Britain and elsewhere are attracted to it, maybe it suits our mind set. And in anycase it is a group dance and belly dancers dance in groupshere in the West. Raks Sharki is a solo performance even though we bop around in our group dances being so unauthentic. In actual fact I don't think we should call these variations on a theme belly dance at all. Unless we are trying to dance as they do in Egypt, Turkey or the Lebanon, maybe should call tribal belly dance just ATS, Tribal Fusion, World Fusion..whatever. That doesn't mean we have to never be in each others presence and doesn't mean we never acknowledge the origins of tribal belly dance.

04-24-2008, 11:52 AM	#37 (permalink)
jenc V.I.P. Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Colchester UK Posts: 1,050	I am not against tribal as such. I would consider ATS if there was a tribe near me. Although I have to say I find it rather samey to watch, but I am sure that it is more fun to take part. What I don't like are the industrial/heavy hip hop music and the more energetic style of fusin. In fact I was attending a local class as a filler until my teacher returns. Then the vagaries of easter holiday led to me having a whole month off (2 weeks the teacher and 2 weeks my hol). In the meantime I had downloaded the music and after listening to the Turkish Hip Hop for several times without dancing to it, I concluded that I had no inclination to go on dancing to it. I have no desire to do squats, knee bends, do the long hair brushing floor thingy with my short grey locks etc. I do also realise that what we do as Egyptian is very much not aythentic (at my level of troupe dancing, but I feel that I prefer grace, playfulness and a less in-your-face sensuality, and I long to be able to take this further. It sometmes feels as thuogh opportunities to do this are disappearing in this country.

04-29-2008, 09:18 PM	#39 (permalink)
gypsyroze Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 65	I'm mostly into tribal and folkloric, however getting the basics in Egyptian and Cabaret is never a bad thing. I was getting into tribal hardcore, but had to stop dancing for about 2 yrs due to school and other things. I've just started attending classes again, and I went straight to my Egyptian style instructor, just to begin to get back into shape. My instructor told me that once the girls got the basics down, the just went tribal and really don't attend her classes anymore, but she mentioned that they studied for a few years before going completely tribal.

05-08-2008, 08:02 PM	#40 (permalink)
Atalanta Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Historic Philadelphia Posts: 29	I, like many who took their first classes in the '90's, started with Egyptian from Habiba. Now (after a few years slacking off) I am taking ATS classes. I study with two instructors, both are mainly tribal improv, though the Sunday class instructors are in a goth troupe. I'm leaning more toward tribal fusion myself.