about oriental flamenco

girl from serbia · 12-10-2007, 03:18 AM

hi! i am new here, I'm sorry if my English is not good,I hope that you will understand me ...!?

I start with belly dance before 2 month ago,and I learn a lot of styles in this dance thanks to this site.

I read off almost everything here- every dance article,every topic on this forum,and of course I try to find answer on my question on google,but I couldn't.

So,the question is: if someone knows when oriental flamenco develop (when appear,about which year???) and in which country???

Is oriental flamenco style of belly dance like raks baladi, haggallah,dabke,american tribal style, or it is one of many,many fusions (like belly jazz,belly ballet,hip-hop belly fusion,.....)

thank you a lot!!!!

kiss from Serbia!!!

Kharmine · 12-10-2007, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by girl from serbia

hi! i am new here, I'm sorry if my English is not good,I hope that you will understand me ...!?

So,the question is: if someone knows when oriental flamenco develop (when appear,about which year???) and in which country???...

Your English is good enough, don't worry!

I've been researching this for awhile now, and while I still don't know enough I can say that there is flamenco, there is belly dance, and then there are fusions that blend whatever the particular dancer feels like blending, whenever he/she feels like doing it.

Fusion origins can be hard to pin down, but between Andalucia and North Africa, they've been going on in music, song and dance for hundreds of years.

These fusions get lots of different names because there is really no one "official" style called "Oriental Flamenco" or "flamenco Arabe" or anything like that. People give their fusion a label in order to try to explain what they're doing.

But you can find a kind of blend of Spanish/Arabic cultures in some Sephardic Jewish dances, in some music out of Morocco, for instance, and in a particular dance done by Andalucian gypsies called "zambra." Look up zambra in YouTube, and you'll see a lot of stuff that it ain't -- again, people are just hangin' a label on a fusion.

Zambra is of old Moorish origin. Spanish gypsies are the ones who adapted it a long time ago. It's not flamenco, but it does have Spanish influence, too. I put a really good example of it in the Videos section here on the forum -- look for "zambra."

Hope that helps!

girl from serbia · 12-10-2007, 01:33 PM

Thank you Kharmine for explain me that, I read about zambra,but I don't know is this style from this clip (which I adore) exatcly zambra, or something another???

YouTube - Bellydance Andalusia-Natalia Strelchenko

I'm little confuzed... is there a lot of styles in oriental flamenco,or what? I don't understand that...

Aisha Azar · 12-10-2007, 02:02 PM

Dear Girl from Serbia,
Since this is a fusion style, you have the freedom to do with it what you want. It is not recognized as a specific ethnic style where there are certain rules or elements that make it what it is. The main thing is that in performing or teaching this sty;e, we take care to inform our audiences and students that what we are doing is fusion, not authentic ethnic dance.
By the way, your English is way better than my Serbian!!
Regards,
A'isha

LLAIMA · 12-10-2007, 08:43 PM

Hi all,

I would like to confirm some of the comments kharmine and Ai’sha posted and add my conclusions on this subject.

In Flamenco, zambra is a "palo" or genre that has its origins in Granada which is located in the region of Andalusia it was popularized in the 1940’s, however, it dates way back, probably from when Granada was governed by the moors, in fact the word zambra is derived from a Moorish term: zambr wich means noise, also zamara: musicians zamir: musician, zambra refers to gypsy parties as well.
Zambra is divided into 3 different sections and danced to a specific rhythm and melody, each section represents 3 different parts of the gypsies wedding traditions in one of them the dancer mimics the grooms expressing his sorrow for taking away the bride from her parents. Today zambra is very commercialized in the caves area of Granada because is a turists atraction for its oriental aspect.
Because I study both Flamenco and oriental dance in depth I also fusion but before I did I consulted my Flamenco teacher who aproved it but I still call my fusion "Gypsy fantasy fusion" because Zambra in my opinion is a folkloric form of art and don't feel would be respecful of me to interpret the dance from my own perception and label it zambra, I think I would be able to label it as "Zambra fantasy"; Flamenco is a very wide form of art that takes years of practice, that is why out of the hundreds of "palos" I only perform "Rumba Flamenca" which originated when the spaniards from Andalusia settleled in Cuba at the time of the colony, when the cultural interchange was taking place, and it is a fusion of Rumba (nothing to do with ballroom interpretation of Rhumba) played with a flamenco air. The fussion might have happenned in Spain when the andalusian traveled back from Cuba and brought this happy rythm with them. In both cases theese are fussions that naturally happened ceturies ago.

p.s my first language is not English either, so forgive my ortographic errors.
Also I would like to post a video from you tube, but don't know how...will post as soon as I figure it out

Thanks

LLAIMA · 12-11-2007, 08:08 PM

[

I can now post videos thanks to Moon.

This is a theatrical interpretation, enjoy

belly_dancer · 12-11-2007, 11:03 PM

years ago... from a flemenco dancer who became a belly dancer (& who was married to a flamenco guitarist) I took a workshop "barefoot flamenco"..
& something to do with the term "Zambra moora" (spelling seems wrong.... sorry).... there was way more emphasis on the hips than "regular" flamenco... & less "stomping" as this was done barefoot....
do not remember enough to "instruct" you as to what is accurate... but maybe this will point you in correct direction?

LLAIMA · 12-12-2007, 03:26 PM

.... sorry).... there was way more emphasis on the hips than "regular" flamenco... & less "stomping" as this was done barefoot....
do not remember enough to "instruct" you as to what is accurate... but maybe this will point you in correct direction?[/quote]

Hi belly dancer, I think you might enjoy watching a video I posted on a threat started by lidya Dubai. the name is "talent"

You have to wait untill the end of the video to see the dancer, In this case the dancer is not particulary dancing Zambra, but I guess he just felt like taking his shoes off.

When I hang out with my flamenco friends, and they star jamming sometimes they take their shoes off to be more confortable.

belly_dancer · 12-12-2007, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LLAIMA

.... sorry).... there was way more emphasis on the hips than "regular" flamenco... & less "stomping" as this was done barefoot....
do not remember enough to "instruct" you as to what is accurate... but maybe this will point you in correct direction?

Hi belly dancer, I think you might enjoy watching a video I posted on a threat started by lidya Dubai. the name is "talent"

You have to wait untill the end of the video to see the dancer, In this case the dancer is not particulary dancing Zambra, but I guess he just felt like taking his shoes off.

When I hang out with my flamenco friends, and they star jamming sometimes they take their shoes off to be more confortable.[/quote]

Hi Lliama.... I enjoyed the WHOLE video... thank you!!!! (please share MORE (or should I say Moor...) if you have!!!)
btw... reading some of other posts....
*interesting about the zambra being from the part of Spain that the Moors occupied...... (makes sense about the "Zambra Moora'... sorry spelling STILL seems wrong......

)
*your English is super!!! wish I could EVEN half way understand another language!!!

LLAIMA · 12-13-2007, 01:09 AM

Hi Lliama.... I enjoyed the WHOLE video... thank you!!!! (please share MORE (or should I say Moor...) if you have!!!)

thank you belly dancer

there is no dancer on this video but the music is very inspiring.

12-10-2007, 03:18 AM	#1 (permalink)
girl from serbia Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Serbia Posts: 2	about oriental flamenco hi! i am new here, I'm sorry if my English is not good,I hope that you will understand me ...!? I start with belly dance before 2 month ago,and I learn a lot of styles in this dance thanks to this site. I read off almost everything here- every dance article,every topic on this forum,and of course I try to find answer on my question on google,but I couldn't. So,the question is: if someone knows when oriental flamenco develop (when appear,about which year???) and in which country??? Is oriental flamenco style of belly dance like raks baladi, haggallah,dabke,american tribal style, or it is one of many,many fusions (like belly jazz,belly ballet,hip-hop belly fusion,.....) thank you a lot!!!! kiss from Serbia!!! __________________ dance is the hidden language of the soul

12-10-2007, 01:33 PM	#3 (permalink)
girl from serbia Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Serbia Posts: 2	Thank you Kharmine for explain me that, I read about zambra,but I don't know is this style from this clip (which I adore) exatcly zambra, or something another??? YouTube - Bellydance Andalusia-Natalia Strelchenko I'm little confuzed... is there a lot of styles in oriental flamenco,or what? I don't understand that... __________________ dance is the hidden language of the soul

12-10-2007, 02:02 PM	#4 (permalink)
Aisha Azar V.I.P. Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Pacific Northwest USA Posts: 4,516	Flamenco/ Oreintal Dear Girl from Serbia, Since this is a fusion style, you have the freedom to do with it what you want. It is not recognized as a specific ethnic style where there are certain rules or elements that make it what it is. The main thing is that in performing or teaching this sty;e, we take care to inform our audiences and students that what we are doing is fusion, not authentic ethnic dance. By the way, your English is way better than my Serbian!! Regards, A'isha

12-10-2007, 08:43 PM	#5 (permalink)
LLAIMA Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: USA Posts: 70	Hi all, I would like to confirm some of the comments kharmine and Ai’sha posted and add my conclusions on this subject. In Flamenco, zambra is a "palo" or genre that has its origins in Granada which is located in the region of Andalusia it was popularized in the 1940’s, however, it dates way back, probably from when Granada was governed by the moors, in fact the word zambra is derived from a Moorish term: zambr wich means noise, also zamara: musicians zamir: musician, zambra refers to gypsy parties as well. Zambra is divided into 3 different sections and danced to a specific rhythm and melody, each section represents 3 different parts of the gypsies wedding traditions in one of them the dancer mimics the grooms expressing his sorrow for taking away the bride from her parents. Today zambra is very commercialized in the caves area of Granada because is a turists atraction for its oriental aspect. Because I study both Flamenco and oriental dance in depth I also fusion but before I did I consulted my Flamenco teacher who aproved it but I still call my fusion "Gypsy fantasy fusion" because Zambra in my opinion is a folkloric form of art and don't feel would be respecful of me to interpret the dance from my own perception and label it zambra, I think I would be able to label it as "Zambra fantasy"; Flamenco is a very wide form of art that takes years of practice, that is why out of the hundreds of "palos" I only perform "Rumba Flamenca" which originated when the spaniards from Andalusia settleled in Cuba at the time of the colony, when the cultural interchange was taking place, and it is a fusion of Rumba (nothing to do with ballroom interpretation of Rhumba) played with a flamenco air. The fussion might have happenned in Spain when the andalusian traveled back from Cuba and brought this happy rythm with them. In both cases theese are fussions that naturally happened ceturies ago. p.s my first language is not English either, so forgive my ortographic errors. Also I would like to post a video from you tube, but don't know how...will post as soon as I figure it out Thanks Last edited by LLAIMA; 01-15-2008 at 02:12 PM.

12-11-2007, 08:08 PM	#6 (permalink)
LLAIMA Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: USA Posts: 70	[ I can now post videos thanks to Moon. This is a theatrical interpretation, enjoy Last edited by LLAIMA; 12-11-2007 at 08:16 PM.

12-11-2007, 11:03 PM	#7 (permalink)
belly_dancer Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: central coast, California Posts: 569	years ago... from a flemenco dancer who became a belly dancer (& who was married to a flamenco guitarist) I took a workshop "barefoot flamenco".. & something to do with the term "Zambra moora" (spelling seems wrong.... sorry).... there was way more emphasis on the hips than "regular" flamenco... & less "stomping" as this was done barefoot.... do not remember enough to "instruct" you as to what is accurate... but maybe this will point you in correct direction?

12-12-2007, 03:26 PM	#8 (permalink)
LLAIMA Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: USA Posts: 70	.... sorry).... there was way more emphasis on the hips than "regular" flamenco... & less "stomping" as this was done barefoot.... do not remember enough to "instruct" you as to what is accurate... but maybe this will point you in correct direction?[/quote] Hi belly dancer, I think you might enjoy watching a video I posted on a threat started by lidya Dubai. the name is "talent" You have to wait untill the end of the video to see the dancer, In this case the dancer is not particulary dancing Zambra, but I guess he just felt like taking his shoes off. When I hang out with my flamenco friends, and they star jamming sometimes they take their shoes off to be more confortable.

12-13-2007, 01:09 AM	#10 (permalink)
LLAIMA Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: USA Posts: 70	Hi Lliama.... I enjoyed the WHOLE video... thank you!!!! (please share MORE (or should I say Moor...) if you have!!!) thank you belly dancer there is no dancer on this video but the music is very inspiring.