Aziyade

Okay, I don't want this topic to end up in the sauna, and I'm REALLY trying to develop a taste for, or at very least, an understanding of Tribal Fusion.

I finally "got" ATS. I get the group improv groove, I get the cuing (sort of -- well, not really, but it's coming), I even get the costuming now. I have enjoyed doing it, although it's not my normal style, and would enjoy playing with it more, with a larger group of dancers.

But Tribal Fusion seems beyond me.

I bought Rachel Brice's original Tribal/Yoga DVD because I thought she was a very interesting dancer (back when she was still dancing in the style of the first BDSS tour.)

I did not like the DVD because I thought the yoga wasn't enough good stretch for me, and the bellydance drills seemed like something we'd done in a remedial class of Suhaila's Level One material.

Since then, I've bought all the Tribal Fusion dvds from World Dance New York, I just got Arabian Spices (I think that's what it's called -- the choreography) and Sharon Kihara's new dvd.

Admittedly, I haven't spent a great deal of time looking at all the World Dance New York DVDs, but is it just me or is like 90% of their instruction just plain old Suhaila Level One material??

-Use glutes to make hip lifts and hip "shimmies"
-Undulations taught as Suhaila teaches them
-Layering combinations same as Suhaila's intro to Layering
-Same muscle use as Suhaila's method
-Same DESCRIPTIONS of how the muscles are used as Suhaila's

It's like being in her level one workshop all over again.

I had a friend tell me that Tribal Fusion is SO HARD to do. I'm wondering now what I'm doing wrong that it doesn't seem so hard. Or is it just that it seems harder to some people because of the ways the muscles are used???

Is it REALLY all based on Suhaila's material -- except the arms. That arm posture is strange, but I noticed on Arabian Spices the arm posture isn't so dramatic.

AK! I just don't get it!! I keep wanting to switch the music -- maybe to something that sounds slightly Arabic -- and see if their dancing changes. Has anyone seen TF done to Arabic music? (And not just Arabic pop or Arabic techno that sounds just like American pop/techno). Maybe if I saw that, it would help.

I'm NOT criticizing -- I just don't get it and I want to. I love the drills on these DVDs, and I;d like to understand more about performing TF. Thanks!!

teela

I think you've asked some very good questions in your posts. None of which I can really answer since I do not care for tribal fusion. My take on tribal fusion is the moves tend to be slowed down, done in sync (especially in groups) and the moves are often syncapated, broken down into very individual parts and most of what i've seen, seems to lack something. Perhaps the same joy as seen in regular bellydancing. I await someone's answers to your questions because I"d love to know more.

Eve

I enjoy tinkering with fusion although my own practise is now going in another direction. I still enjoy those locks and pops.

I think there is plenty of influence from Suhaila in these dvd's as many of those dancers have studied with her. The closest I've got is her dvd's and a couple of workshops with Sam Hasthorpe, the Brit who is part of the tribal section of BDSS. Much of what we did was taken from the suhaila format and I do see it's value. For example with undulations it was all about upper back, upper abs, lower abs, release....or you can just roll. I think it would be especially useful for troupe work. Everyone will be on the same part of the move on the same beat...and it can make people aware of what muscles you are using (for her style).

See what you think of this fusion. It's a shame the power of the performance doesn't come over so well here.

YouTube - Gothla - Ariellah

I was going to say fusion has a focus on specific muscle contraction/release but raks has that too they feel different like hard vs soft. Even the snakey RB movements often involve keeping tension in the body.

Now I feel more confused

Shakeelah

From the little I know and understand, I perceive the main differences as follows:

TF movement is muscular, with particular attention paid to engaging the muscle and releasing, passing the movement from muscle to muscle through the body and limbs.
Belly dance has a less deliberate stretch and release, looking at the movement as a whole, creating phrases in the body in response to the music.

TF in my opinion was created in response to the music it is danced to, and is therefore an expression of that music. This is true of belly dance, but the music is very different.

Attitude and the emotional response is very different. From observation and from attending a few workshops, it can be generalised as follows:
Belly dance - an offering of the dancers emotional response to the audience
ATS Tribal - Sharing the experience with the group, staying connected with the group and then, sharing that experience as a collective with the audience.
TF - it's all about me, the dancer, and by performing I am giving you permission to watch me, I will take from my audience any energy you willingly give.

I do not see any of this as a criticism of any style, rather just an acknowledgement of the difference, and regard them all as valid. I think that TF is very much a product of this current generation, and the society these women have grown up in. I just know that for me it is better to give than to receive.

Shakeelah

TribalDancer

Shakeelah,
Those are some very good observations. I enjoyed reading it, thanks.

Tribal Fusion is really hard to pin down because SO MANY people are calling what they do tribal fusion. And honestly, I just wouldn't call many of them tribal anything.

I was never a big fan of Rachel Brice calling herself a tribal bellydancer after she had clearly moved on to some other derivative style, which was more pop n' lock meets cabaret. But in talking with her about it, Miles really wanted tribal in the name as a marketing scheme. And it worked. ALl over the world people say "I never liked tribal until I saw Rachel do it!" And I have to say "Well, you didn't see tribal." But I digress.

The styles you are talking about I call Alternative Bellydance (or Alternative Tribal if someone really feels strongly they want to be in the "tribal gang", which is what it feels like these days--hangers on to a name and an idea, not a style). As I said, they combine a lot of pops and locks (hip nop/breakdancing influences) with very fluid connective tissue, if you will.

I still will agree that some dancers in this style are maintaining a presentation and aesethtic that leans more toward tribal style--very grounded, very isolated, and as Shakeelah aptly pointed out, the treatment of muscles in the moves. And yes, costuming and music play a role in this as well. But where it has leapt from there is in so many different directions, it is hard to answer your question just now.

For instance, our troupe is 6 years old, and we have always called ourselves Tribal Fusion. No one was using that term back then, and we felt it was a fair descriptor for what we did--combined choreography with tribal group improvisation (what was the only thing known as tribal at the time). We thought the "fusion" of our cabaret backgrounds with our tribal improvisational stylings were unique and deserved a name that was clear on that.

Skip ahead a few years, and suddenly everyone is calling themselves tribal fusion, to describe full on choreographies, soloists, burlesque fusions...you name it. I don't see the tribal in many of them, and it is sad to me, as I loves me some tribal! But to answer your question is a difficult matter...

And PS, yes, many of the BDSS dancers and offshoots of that school of dancing has rooted themselves in Suhaila's format. Suhaila's style is very muscle oriented, but what I kinda think? Since so many of them are moving more toward a semi-cabaret presentation, Suhaila is a "gateway" cabaret dancer, because she does so much fusion and because she doesn't teach a STYLE but a technique to make your moves look more like her presentation of moves. They could be taking their biggest cues from Carolena or other greats in tribal style and then their style would look more tribal to my eye. But because they are taking more of a cabaret approach (and the BDSS tribal dancers certainly are getting more than their fair share of cabaret influence thanks to having to dance choreographies in cabaret styles at every show), their style keeps moving more away from tribal. So I wish they would use some other name...

SaraKat

I pretty much agree with everything TribalDancer just said.

I think the idea that Tribal Fusion = Rachel Brice Format is fairly recent. The term "Tribal Fusion" may have been popularized by the BDSS marketing squad, but it existed before anyone knew who the heck Rachel was... back in ye olden days about 4 or 5 years ago. I think as the idea that Tribal Fusion is what Rachel does expands, people who I think of as being in the same basic genre are all kind of jumping ship and labeling themselves differently, which doesn't make it easy for a newcomer to appreciate the breadth and history of the genre (and it does have a history, even if not an especially long one).
I guess what I am trying to say is that Tribal dancers are like olives. Some people think they don't like olives, but olive lovers swear that there is an olive out there for everyone. As a former olive loather and now olive convert, I can attest that this is true (at least for me!) If Rachel's style doesn't do anything for you, or if you don't "get it", I swear there is a Tribal dancer out there who will inspire you. You just need to experiment with some of the variations that are out there.

Here are some of my favorite youtubes... I hope they help you understand why I, like so many other people, are so into this genre.

YouTube - Ultra Gypsy

YouTube - Olivia Kissel of Zafira Dance Company - 3rd Coast 2007

YouTube - Unmata - tribalfest - Amy Sigil

YouTube - Rachel Brice performs at Tribal Fest 6 Really, she dances fast sometimes too, and here's video to prove it.

TribalDancer

Zafira is another tough one to pin down. I call them "East Coast Tribal", but really, they are just good old fashioned American Cabaret with a particularly folksy slant. The INFLUENCE of tribal is there as of the last 4-5 years, but are they tribal...? They, to me, are American Cabaret with heavy Persian dance , Turkish, and tribal dance influences. Here is an example that will show what I mean:
YouTube - Zafira Dance Company

Whatever they are, I ADORE them. Cool chicks. SO talented.

Ultra Gypsy is getting back to some old school cabaret roots recently. They were tribal for a while, when they offshot from FatChance (well, Jill Parker did, I mean, and formed a largely ATS influenced troupe in Ultra Gypsy). For a while there, they took bellydance out of their name entirely, I believe because they were fusing so heavily and doing such experimental stuff, they took on the name "Experimental Dance Theater".

They put back the "bellydance", and have been getting back to some serious basics, but with their own twist. I aknowledge the strong branch of the tribal family tree that Jill and Ultra Gypsy are, but woner about the tribalness of it any more.

See why this is such a tough subject to grasp??

adiemus

Now that I'm more confused than ever, I think I'll stick with Egyptian...

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TribalDancer

Sorryt Adiemus. Maybe if everyone and their mother weren't using one term to mean 50 zillion distinctly different things...

Just know that the term Tribal Fusion to many people means just about anything dark, industrial, uber slow, moody, and not specifically able to be slotted into cabaret.

Kharmine

Oh, dear, I thought that was supposed to be Raks Gothique!

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