Makeda Maysa

As someone who has studied and performed in both tribal and cabaret styles, I can definitely spot the cabaret girl in tribal drag.

Though I started out my dance studies with an AmCab teacher and subsequently moved on to studying Egyptian and Lebanese, I also heavily studied ATS and tribal fusion. In my performance career, I began as a member of an improvisational tribal troupe (Kallisti Tribal) and moved on to becoming a tribal fusion soloist. It wasn't until the past year that I started performing professionally as a cabaret dancer.

I am miffed when it is clear that a dancer has put in little to no study in tribal bellydance before deciding to pop up on stage in Melodias and instantly be a "tribal dancer." Wearing Melodias, tassels or whatnot does not make a person a tribal dancer - it is not solely about costume choice. The carriage of the dancer is different, the use of muscles are different ... it is a different "feel" entirely. I have worked really, really hard to be able to separate the dance styles ... having performed as a tribal dancer longer, it was very hard to stop looking like a tribal girl in bedlah, but I think I have finally achieved it. I appreciate it when other dancers work as hard to give each style of dance the study and the respect it deserves.

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lizaj

From what I understand Raks Gothique or Gothic Bellydance has also to do with adherence to the Goth movement. The Goth dancers I know who performed at Gothla are not just about costuming and music.

I belong to a troupe of Tribal Fusion dancers and we fuse two aspects of belly dance ATS moves upon a basis of the Egyptian style we originally learnt and continue to practise. I teach the basics of both these but with ATS classes I teach improvisation.In the troupe though, we always choreograph so we call ourselves Tribal Fusion even though to some eyes we are the following FCBD, GC and Domba teachers' intructions we've had.

Aziyade

Hey you all, I just wanted to say this thread has been VERY helpful! Thank you all for your contributions!

yasmindiab

As a cabaret girl who has JUST started working on tribal, I have to say that this irritates me too.
I performed at Ren Faire for the first time this year in Las Vegas, and I'm pretty sure that it was VERY obvious that I am not very well versed in tribal. HOWEVER...I really did try. I worked on my arm movements, and posture like mad! The girl I did my duet with would watch me and tell me how I could make the move I was trying to do look more Tribal and less Cabaret.

What irritated me is, that I put so much work into it, and then there was another troupe that just threw on some "tribal costuming" and did cabaret. They even used an Egyptian pop piece...at a REN FAIRE! But...I digress...sadly there are a lot of people who think that costuming makes them a dancer, period.

I love all forms of this dance...Egyptian, Tribal, Gothic, ALL of it!

~Yasmin Diab

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Farasha Hanem

I would really, really love to learn both Egyptian Caberet and tribal fusion, and do justice to both. I'm willing to work hard and study both techniques. Is is possible for me to learn both styles well if I work hard enough?

Right now, I'm not well-versed at all to be able to tell the difference from other styles, such as Turkish, Lebanese, Greek chiftetelli, etc., although I've been watching quite a few videos on YouTube, both here and on the regular web site. I am interested in a dance that's not even bellydance---I think it's called "Bollywood." It looks like a lot of fun.

I'd like to be able to attend workshops, but The Big Happy Face Retail Chain keeps me working weekends.

Moon

I agree with you, costuming definitely not make people a dancer!
But when I read this I got so curious. Please believe me, I'm not trying to offend you in any way, but I just have to ask: Why are tribal dancer at a ren faire any more accurate than people using Egyptian pop music? As far as I know tribal style is a product of the 20th century and has nothing to do with the renaissance period anyway?

yasmindiab

No worries, its very hard to offend me.

As far as ren faires go, I'm about as lost as anyone. The only think I can think of is that the costuming in tribal "looks more period" than someone in a sequined Pharonics costume...although again, we have the "costuming doesn't make you authentic" arguement.... Some faires are more strict than others too...some (like Vegas) will let you use recorded music to dance. Other faires (like Southern California) REQUIRES live music.

My understanding with faire was that the music should not have any "techno" sounds to it (ie: synthesizers, etc) or vocals. The song the troupe in question used was Nourhann's "Habibi Ya Eini..." perhaps this was just me misunderstanding guidelines though...

Anyone else out there have any insight about ren faires, and why tribal is more accepted there? My post here is simply my thoughts...and I am by *no means* an expert.

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Makeda Maysa

It absolutely is possible! Like I said, I am both a tribal fusion dancer and a cabaret dancer, primarily modern Egyptian and some Lebanese. I have studied both, intensively, for four years.

You seem really willing to study hard and that is so awesome! I'm so happy that you recognize the work and time that go into it. I hope you find teachers who will really be able to give you the knowledge you desire. Can't wait to see you dance some day!

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Aziyade

Renn Faires are produced by people who aren't necessarily historians, but they want the look and feel of something historical -- sort of the fantasy "the middle ages as they SHOULD be" sort of thing. So you might have one booth with actual historical blacksmithing, and right next to a cart selling cheesecake on a stick.

They all have different rules, as you've pointed out, but I think as a general rule beads and sequins are out. The producers look for an "ethnic" look, and that usually means the ATS crowd. I can't see an Indigo-style costume being accepted at the Faires around here anymore than a beaded bra and belt. There;s something about ATS style tribal that LOOKS like it belongs in the middle ages. I have no idea how to put that in a more effective way. It looks ethnic. And usually the music they dance to is more folkloric than pop, so it makes for easier transition to the multi-cultural melange that is the usual Renn Faire band.

In Louisville, they had a bunch of drummers and a bagpiper to play for the dancers. The lead dancer told me eventually you start to zone out and the bagpipe sounds a lot like a mizmar. Of course, the bagpipe IS a Middle Eastern instrument -- but not the Great Highland pipes. Anyway -- it all LOOKS appropriately ethnic and dramatic.

TribalDancer

Makeda, I would love to see some video examples of the two styles you do. I am intrigued. Because I would have said "no". I think you can do both, certainly. But do both justice, truly? Bringing the fullest expression of each, emotionally and stylistically? I would doubt it. But if it has been done, I really wanna see it!

As for the Ren Faire thing, it's NOT about authenticity. Ren Faires and the SCA are two different things. Ren Faires are more about the *semblance* of authenticity--like good theater. Of course the personalities range both ends of the spectrum, from "just fake it" to "I wanna really do this up perfectly", but in general the goal of a Ren Faire is theatrical reenactment, not reproduction.

To that end, the history of tribal was born at the Ren Faire--Jamila's dancers, who were fully cabaret dancers at heart, put on roughly "gypsy" looking costuming to fit into the scene, and the music also went along with that (live or recorded, it was organic instruments, not synthesized pop). Jamila and her students ran with this and continued to develop "tribe-like" dances and costuming to further the theatrical element.

Honestly, it doesn't matter to me if you dance tribal or cabaret at a Ren Faire--neither as a STYLE is more authentic than another. But Tribal looks more appropriate. Unfortunately, this is one area where things get confused in the dance world of today, though: cabaret dancers who just dress up in tribal garb, regardless of the venue or circumstances, can confuse the general public about what tribal really is and is not. So long as they weren't billing themselves as tribal, though, I see no conflict. Now dancing to synth-pop at Ren Faire, that is just WRONG!

Edit: Aziyade and I were typing at the same time! I will add that I don't feel that tribal fusion al la Rachel Brice is very appropriate for Ren Faire as I think it looks too modern (not necessarily *today* modern, though the dread look definitely does--but more like 1800's kind of modern), but it seems generally accepted at most faires these days.