Fusion belly dance - how many are there??? - Page 15

Aisha Azar · 06-10-2008, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machiavellia

I generally agree with this view. I can get myself into the mindset of a traditionalist who feels that some types of bellydancing simply are "not". I think people have a right to preserve, or attempt to preserve, what they perceive as an endangered art, but that inevitably that attempt will fail. There is no such thing as an unchanging art. Even passing it from generation to generation is just playing Chinese Whisper. And I do think that traditionalists understand this, but perceive that overarching change as being acceptable, while micro-evolution of the dance through fusion and experimentation is more open to criticism.

I utterly disagree but I don't mind the opinion because I think if everyone was doing the same thing, that would be unfortunate for the community. I do prefer that people preserve or experiment with respect though, which unfortunately doesn't always happen.

Dear Machiavellia,
AND allowing change to happen within the countries of origin and within certain cultural boundaries is very different than taking a free hand with someone else's art form and still referring to it as the original product. Fusion and other styles can be wonderful when well done, but they need to have their own definition, and not just be lumped into "Middle Eastern Dance", which most are not.

Now that I have said that, I also want to say that I lived in Stevenville, Newfoundland when I was a child,and I started school there at St. Steven Catholic school. I went there 1st grade and part of 2nd. When I got back to the states, I did not know how to say the Pledge of Allegiance, as they made us do every morning to start the school day in America. I have a sister who was born there, too.
Regards,
A'isha

Machiavellia · 06-10-2008, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A'isha Azar

Dear Machiavellia,
AND allowing change to happen within the countries of origin and within certain cultural boundaries is very different than taking a free hand with someone else's art form and still referring to it as the original product. Fusion and other styles can be wonderful when well done, but they need to have their own definition, and not just be lumped into "Middle Eastern Dance", which most are not.

Now that I have said that, I also want to say that I lived in Stevenville, Newfoundland when I was a child,and I started school there at St. Steven Catholic school. I went there 1st grade and part of 2nd. When I got back to the states, I did not know how to say the Pledge of Allegiance, as they made us do every morning to start the school day in America. I have a sister who was born there, too.
Regards,
A'isha

A'isha,
Personally, I feel that, as you said, there are boundaries to what is and is not bellydancing, but that everyone draws their own line in a slightly different place. In my view, that involves imbuing my art with my own cultural and personal experiences. When I started studying, it was Algerian style, but in no way would I call myself an Algerian-style bellydancer anymore, although that is the origin of most of my bellydance vocabulary. I certainly don't call what I do Middle Eastern Dance, but I do call it bellydance, because I do feel that the terms are not synonymous, although they may overlap significantly. In fact, perhaps that's the best way to make that differentiation between traditional and fusion, since strictly speaking the term bellydancing is a Western invention in any case. If someone works hard, is respectful and self-identifies as a bellydancer, I am generally willing to accept that. But I respect that not everyone feels that way and some wish to preserve. I think respect is key to everyone getting along.

I'm intrigued that you lived in Stephenville, as that is not a place people tend to move. I've passed through there several times, although I'm from St. John's. There are seven bellydance troupes in Newfoundland today! One is actually in Corner Brook, only a short drive from Stephenville, and is Egyptian Cabaret. They're quite good- the troupe director, as I understand it, is amazingly well traveled and studied. If you ever find yourself back in the province, I am certain there would be a lot of interest in workshops.

Aisha Azar · 06-10-2008, 03:10 PM

DEar Machiavellia,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machiavellia

A'isha,
Personally, I feel that, as you said, there are boundaries to what is and is not bellydancing, but that everyone draws their own line in a slightly different place. In my view, that involves imbuing my art with my own cultural and personal experiences. When I started studying, it was Algerian style, but in no way would I call myself an Algerian-style bellydancer anymore, although that is the origin of most of my bellydance vocabulary. I certainly don't call what I do Middle Eastern Dance, but I do call it bellydance, because I do feel that the terms are not synonymous, although they may overlap significantly. In fact, perhaps that's the best way to make that differentiation between traditional and fusion, since strictly speaking the term bellydancing is a Western invention in any case.

When you say the words "belly dance" you are evoking for your audience a definite effect of something coming from the mysterious Middle East. To westerners, this term does not mean anything western, it means a specific dance, and even if they do not know where it comes from exactly, they know if as a form from somewhere exotic and far away. Belly dance IS the English for Raqs Sharghi. The term "belly dance" may have been a western invention, but it definitely meant dances from over there, and in the eyes of he general public still does! Arabs, when they speak of the dance in English, call it belly dance for the most part.

Quote:

I'm intrigued that you lived in Stephenville, as that is not a place people tend to move. I've passed through there several times, although I'm from St. John's. There are seven bellydance troupes in Newfoundland today! One is actually in Corner Brook, only a short drive from Stephenville, and is Egyptian Cabaret. They're quite good- the troupe director, as I understand it, is amazingly well traveled and studied. If you ever find yourself back in the province, I am certain there would be a lot of interest in workshops.

7 dance companies there!! I think that's wonderful. My father was in the military, and the Air Force base was there or by there. The closest I am probably going to get to Newfoundland under my own steam is that I am going back to Maine, where I was born, in September. I am up for being sponsored if they are interested. I have not worked in Canada for a couple of years, but my passport is in order!! My website for more info on me is Raqs Azar and my dance company is Barharat!!.
Regards,
A'isha

Machiavellia · 06-10-2008, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A'isha Azar

DEar Machiavellia,
When you say the words "belly dance" you are evoking for your audience a definite effect of something coming from the mysterious Middle East. To westerners, this term does not mean anything western, it means a specific dance, and even if they do not know where it comes from exactly, they know if as a form from somewhere exotic and far away. Belly dance IS the English for Raqs Sharghi. The term "belly dance" may have been a western invention, but it definitely meant dances from over there, and in the eyes of he general public still does! Arabs, when they speak of the dance in English, call it belly dance for the most part.

7 dance companies there!! I think that's wonderful. My father was in the military, and the Air Force base was there or by there. The closest I am probably going to get to Newfoundland under my own steam is that I am going back to Maine, where I was born, in September. I am up for being sponsored if they are interested. I have not worked in Canada for a couple of years, but my passport is in order!! My website for more info on me is Raqs Azar and my dance company is Barharat!!.
Regards,
A'isha

A'isha,
As I mentioned previously, the origin of my moves is still Middle Eastern, although the aesthetic and cultural context is not strictly so. Personally, I don't have a problem with audiences, as my company always has a blurb before a performance or in the show's program explaining that the of the dance vocabulary is Middle Eastern, and the context within which it is presented is modern and Western. We also address the relevant women's issues associated with bellydancing (aka it is not stripping). Bellydancing is the best English word to connote the origin and the style of the dance, which is still Middle Eastern, although it is not only Middle Eastern. My company uses the term tribal fusion bellydance fairly often, and locally, people are beginning to know what to expect from a group in that style.

Bellydancing is not the first cultural dance that I studied, that was actually Irish dancing. A good parallel to the bellydancing question is Irish step dancers who incorporate elements of American street tap, jazz, hip hop and ballet into the aesthetic and musical style of the dance. The dance vocabulary remains essentially Irish, and that's what people still call it, although they explain that it's a fusion. I feel the consistently about that.

I guess I feel like if you tell people what you're doing, explain the origin and the different influences, you can't go wrong with experimentation. It does, however, require a thorough knowledge of more cultures and more disciplines, and I do think many people fail for that reason.

Well next time we talk about sponsoring in a workshop teacher, I will definitely throw your name in the ring

With seven dance companies all fairly different in style, I think a traditional workshop would be something everyone would be interested in.

Aisha Azar · 06-10-2008, 03:46 PM

Dear Machiavellie,

[quote][quote]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machiavellia

A'isha,
As I mentioned previously, the origin of my moves is still Middle Eastern, although the aesthetic and cultural context is not strictly so. Personally, I don't have a problem with audiences, as my company always has a blurb before a performance or in the show's program explaining that the of the dance vocabulary is Middle Eastern, and the context within which it is presented is modern and Western. We also address the relevant women's issues associated with bellydancing (aka it is not stripping). Bellydancing is the best English word to connote the origin and the style of the dance, which is still Middle Eastern, although it is not only Middle Eastern. My company uses the term tribal fusion bellydance fairly often, and locally, people are beginning to know what to expect from a group in that style.

Bellydancing is not the first cultural dance that I studied, that was actually Irish dancing. A good parallel to the bellydancing question is Irish step dancers who incorporate elements of American street tap, jazz, hip hop and ballet into the aesthetic and musical style of the dance. The dance vocabulary remains essentially Irish, and that's what people still call it, although they explain that it's a fusion. I feel the consistently about that.

Quote:

Iguess I feel like if you tell people what you're doing, explain the origin and the different influences, you can't go wrong with experimentation. It does, however, require a thorough knowledge of more cultures and more disciplines, and I do think many people fail for that reason.

I agree that this is the key to presenting fusion honestly and clearly to our audiences. I feel that even authentic ethnic dancers have a responsibility to explain to their audiences what they are seeing and hearing. Our company does narrated performances in which anything presented on the stage comes with a short explanation. I applaud you for taking the time and trouble to inform your audiences!

Quote:

Well next time we talk about sponsoring in a workshop teacher, I will definitely throw your name in the ring

With seven dance companies all fairly different in style, I think a traditional workshop would be something everyone would be interested in.

I would LOVE to come back to Newfoundland!! If it comes to that, let me know if you would like references in Canada specifically or elsewhere.
Regards,
A'isha

Machiavellia · 06-10-2008, 03:51 PM

[quote=A'isha Azar;76126]Dear Machiavellie,

[quote]

Quote:

I agree that this is the key to presenting fusion honestly and clearly to our audiences. I feel that even authentic ethnic dancers have a responsibility to explain to their audiences what they are seeing and hearing. Our company does narrated performances in which anything presented on the stage comes with a short explanation. I applaud you for taking the time and trouble to inform your audiences!

I would LOVE to come back to Newfoundland!! If it comes to that, let me know if you would like references in Canada specifically or elsewhere.
Regards,
A'isha

I looked at your company's web site and noticed you have a member whose purpose is to narrate and I love the idea! Right now, we usually either have to submit an introduction to an emcee, send one of our members out in a cover up or try to make sure an explanation is printed in the program. I think that bellydance is misunderstood to a sad degree by many, many people, and in our experience, people have enjoyed themselves a lot more once they understood what it was. We do a lot of women's events in particular to promote bellydancing to other women. Those are usually my favourite.

I'm glad we've been able to have this conversation, and I hope to someday give you the opportunity to come back to Newfoundland

Aisha Azar · 06-10-2008, 07:26 PM

[quote=Machiavellia;76127][quote=A'isha Azar;76126]Dear Machiavellie,

Quote:

I looked at your company's web site and noticed you have a member whose purpose is to narrate and I love the idea! Right now, we usually either have to submit an introduction to an emcee, send one of our members out in a cover up or try to make sure an explanation is printed in the program. I think that bellydance is misunderstood to a sad degree by many, many people, and in our experience, people have enjoyed themselves a lot more once they understood what it was. We do a lot of women's events in particular to promote bellydancing to other women. Those are usually my favourite.

I'm glad we've been able to have this conversation, and I hope to someday give you the opportunity to come back to Newfoundland

Dear Machiavellia,
Yes, Samirah has been great to work with. She studies dance and so she has a working knowledge of what we are doing, but she is not interested in performing. She does join us on percussion when we are presenting certain songs, etc. For example, we sing and play as group for some forms of Samri and she is a strong drummer. Unfortunately, she is leaving us as her life is changing and she will not have the time for rehearsals, etc. We will have to find someone new!
It was great to meet you via the forum.
Regards,
A'isha

zenuba · 07-15-2008, 06:25 PM

There are even earlier fusions that can be added to the list:

Back in the '70s, there was Disco Belly Dancing. There's an LP by Raja of Disco Belly Dancing.

Shanazel · 07-15-2008, 06:45 PM

Disco belly dance. Oh, my, the vision I get of a white polyester bedlah...

zenuba · 07-15-2008, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shanazel

Disco belly dance. Oh, my, the vision I get of a white polyester bedlah...

yes!
...although, this was way before most dancers wore that style of costume (bedleh); everyone wore the cabaret costume then.

maybe....think mid-'60s belly dance costume, but with a disco sound.

And, there was Bellyrobics, too, the fusion of aerobics and belly dancing.

07-15-2008, 06:25 PM	#148 (permalink)
zenuba Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2	Earlier fusions There are even earlier fusions that can be added to the list: Back in the '70s, there was Disco Belly Dancing. There's an LP by Raja of Disco Belly Dancing.

07-15-2008, 06:45 PM	#149 (permalink)
Shanazel Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Rocky Mountains USA Posts: 4,060	Disco belly dance. Oh, my, the vision I get of a white polyester bedlah...