Aisha Azar

Or perhaps that person understands that accurate information can come form even undocumented sources.
Regards,
A'isha

Kharmine

Not if those undocumented sources are a handful of friends or family that only that person personally knows but thinks their observations should constitute the first and last word of what anyone should consider adequate primary source material for research.

At that point it becomes a question as to whether one is dealing with an odd delusion, intellectual laziness or simply narcissistic blather.

I have no desire to prolong the wearisome. I'm off this thread. I'll post the film clip link to you when I find it, Aniseteph. Cheers!

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Aisha Azar

Dear Kharmne and Group,
I have never once implied that my grandfather's or father's statements about the dance were the last word in anything. All one would have to do is really read what I have written to see that. If Kharmine chooses instead to look for excuses to accuse me or anyone else of egomania or narrow mindedness, then she sees what she chooses to see.
I am saying that almost all sources were at one time not documented and that sometimes we can get very valid and meaningful information from them. That is the truth. Doughty, Morgan, Morocco, my grandfather, Aisha Ali,my freind Leila, etc, were all firsthand witness to what they saw or did ( in Leila's case). There was no documentation to prove their claims. For that matter, documentation does not protect one from reading some real nonsense. Documentation does not mean truth. My grandfather, in watching the Ouled Nail dance was no different than Flaubert, or Doughty or any other person who is not dancer trained, when they watched and reported what they saw. The only difference is that he told ME ( aqnd probably others) what he saw instead of writing it in his journal or reporting it to National Geographic or Viltis. This is not unlike anyone writing down what they saw and selling it to a publisher...except that it can not be documented. In college we cited this kind of thing as "personal interview", and it was entirely acceptable, and even necessary in firsthand and secondary research. For some reason it irks the heck out of Kharmine that I would take my grandfather seriously. In taking his word, this does not mean I doubt anyone else's, but I am sure as heck not going to say he was not telling the truth when his report meshed very well with what I knew already, and with what others reported.
Regards,
A'isha

Aniseteph

I'll be made to start all my threads in the sauna at this rate...

I'm not making any claims about what these dances were like or what constitutes good evidence. I just saw this little sequence of photos and film and wanted to share because it was fairly early material (?1910ish, missed the detail ). I'm not a serious researcher but if anyone is, there is material in the Albert Kahn collection - fabulous colour photos and maybe more of this film.

sedoniaraqs

fds

lizaj

I have an old Marlene Dietrich film called the Garden Of Allah and set in Algeria. There is a fabulous dancing scene where I always assumed the costumes bore resemblence to Oulaid Nail and the main dancer does indeed use knives.I always wondered if that was dramatic licence but it seems not according to this. Has anyone else seen this film ?

Maria_Aya

Very interesting thread, dont have anything to post, as i dont know much, but thank you for posting all.
Just found this video on youtube about Ouled Nail.



Maria Aya

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Aisha Azar

Dear Aya,
Very wonderful!! I have often wondered if the Ouled is like the Arabic word or if it is from the Berber language.
Regards,
A'isha