Greek Dance Experts: a question - Page 3

Maria_Aya · 05-11-2007, 06:11 AM

Heyyy I guess you are greek-aussie, i'm also lol (born Melbourn but living Athens many many years lol)
xoxoo
Welcome
maria aya

Aziyade · 05-11-2007, 01:46 PM

HAHAHAHAHA!!! Yeah, my Arab friends must think I'm truly thick-headed because I ask questions like that all the time and they just look at me, like "are you deaf? can't you hear the difference?!"

It's like trying to explain to a non-English-speaker why the word "kumquat" is so funny.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Storm

... my mother officially thinks Im insane .. I just rang her to get an explanation from her about the difference between the folk songs that greeks dance to in a group and tsifteteli ...

Her answer was, you can here the difference ... Im like, yes mum I can hear the difference too cause Ive grown up with it but if an Aussie friend asked you how would you explain it to them ... shes like, same way I explained it to you .. you can hear it ... Im like thanks mum your absolutely no help

Storm · 05-11-2007, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maria_Aya

Heyyy I guess you are greek-aussie, i'm also lol (born Melbourn but living Athens many many years lol)
xoxoo
Welcome
maria aya

certainly am ... first generation Aussie .... my mothers from Athens and my fathers from crete .. they emigrated out to Oz when mum was barely 16 years old and a year later I arrived to torment there lives

and thank you for the welcome, its a pleasure to be here

Storm · 05-11-2007, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aziyade

HAHAHAHAHA!!! Yeah, my Arab friends must think I'm truly thick-headed because I ask questions like that all the time and they just look at me, like "are you deaf? can't you hear the difference?!"

It's like trying to explain to a non-English-speaker why the word "kumquat" is so funny.

no doubt mumsy already thinks Im thick-headed but now Ive managed to confirm it

Regardless I made her promise to bring over a couple of cds sooo I could talk about it with her in more depth ... if she doesnt Im going to hold the cds she wanted me to burn hostage until she does!!!!!

chryssanthi sahar · 05-12-2007, 04:12 AM

Hi Storm.
Welcome to the Greek club

Well, I am a Greek born and grown up in Greece, living in Germany for almost 28 years, but visiting Greece almost every second month (my parents and my whole family still live there and they don't intent to move anywhere else

)
But, I can help you explaining the difference between Tsifteteli music and other Greeks musics. The key is the rhythm, as well as the instruments and the speed of the music. Since we have innumerable rhythms in the Greek music (and of course innumerable different types of songs and dances), it doesn't make sense to try to explain all different rhythms here ( and I couldn't do anyway, because of course I don't know all of them. I know just the very common ones, like Zeimbekiko, Chassaposerviko, Chassapiko, Kalamatiano, Syrto, Tsamiko, Sta Tria and some others. And...of course Tsifteteli). So I'll try to help you distinguish the Tsifteteli from all the other stuff.
It is actually very simple: The majority of the Greek Tsifteteli songs has the Arabian rhythm Maqsoum ( 4/4, dum tak tak dum tak), mostly in middle speed, sometimes very quickly or very slow. In the old Tsifteteli songs the rhythm is usually produced by a single darbouka , sometimes by darbouka and Western drum, but sometimes by no percussion at all. In the later case the takt is kept by an instrument, mainly by the bouzouki. The modern Tsifteteli songs usually have darbouka and drum, or two and more darboukas (some time also other percussion instruments).
Except Maqsoum rhythm, you find also Malfouf rhythm (2/2), but rather slow, not like in the Arabian music (there it is usually very quick) and in rare cases Chifteteli/Taksim rhythm (8/4. Very slow in this case) or even Saidi (4/4. Dum tak dum dum tak). The songs with Saidi rhythm are usually "stolen" from the Arabs, not really original Greek Tsifteteli songs.
As about the instruments: the older Tsifteteli have Bouzouki, Baglama, sometimes Oud or even Santour. Many of the new ones don't have bouzouki and sound rather like an Oriental-Pop fusion.
I hope, I was a bit helpful. Well, I suppose I could be helpful only if you know the Arabian rhythms I have mentioned. If you have more questions, please ask me. I'd be glad to help further

Storm · 05-13-2007, 12:54 AM

Hi Chryssanthi, Thanks for trying to explain it to me .... Like I can here the difference when Im listening to it myself but I didnt know how to explain it to someone else ....

I love the older Tsifteteli with the bouzouki ... I think think a lot of the newer stuff has lost something .. I mean its nice but its not quit the same ...

Im starting to distinquish the different music between the turkish and egyptian BD .... Ive managed to D/L some stuff that I like and some I dont, its not really easy to find it online ...

Aziyade · 06-08-2007, 07:56 PM

HELP!

Okay, this CD set:

Amazon.com: The Greek Belly Dance: Music: Various Artists

#4 on disc one ""let's have fun"

-- could one of you lovely experts tell me if this is an old folk dance, and if this song is okay to bellydance to? Or would this be an example of tsiftitelli dance music? How would you classify this song? What would you dance to it?

I'm convinced I learned a folk dance to this song, but I can't find the notes !!!!

Also, what is this rhythm? I hear it a lot on this CD set (which is GREAT fun to listen to!)

THANKS!!!!!!!!!

chryssanthi sahar · 06-09-2007, 02:22 PM

Hi Aziyde.

Almost all of the songs on the CD are traditional Tsifteteli songs, all of them quite old (30ies to 7oies) and most of them very famous, the Greek Tsifteteli Classics so to say, in original version (therefore the quality of the sound is not so good some times). This means, that you can actually belly dance on almost all of them. Exceptions are:
Nr. 5, 20 and 22, which have rather Mambo rhythm (Greek Mambo. Not to mix up with Latin American Mambo) and should be danced either as Greek Mambo or Syrtos (most Greeks cannot dance Mambo nowadays, that's why they usually dance Syrtos on songs with Mambo rhythm).
Nr. 16 is clearly a Kasilamas (Karshlama) and it should be danced so. But even if you would belly dance on that songs it wouldn't be that bad, because Tsifteteli, Mambo and Kasilamas belong to the same dance group. None of the songs is Zeimbekiko, so no danger

By the way, the first song is called "Ninanai Yavroum" and is originally Turkish (Shinanai Yavroum), but it is one of the most famous Greek Tsifteteli songs and the first song I've ever danced in my life at the age of one and a half

My aunts used to put me on the table when I was a very small child, play (or sing) this song, clap in their hands and let me dance it. This is when I started my belly dance career

The last song (me teleioses) is one of the most beautiful slow Tsifteteli songs. If you feel like dance on the floor on it, just do it

chloe2007 · 06-10-2007, 04:43 PM

OOOH this is really useful!!! I'm 1/4Greek Cypriot but mum's adopted so we don't practice anything Greek- but i am currently learning the language and wanted to know about Greek music and belly dance so thankyou for helping!!!!!

chryssanthi sahar · 06-11-2007, 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chloe2007

OOOH this is really useful!!! I'm 1/4Greek Cypriot but mum's adopted so we don't practice anything Greek- but i am currently learning the language and wanted to know about Greek music and belly dance so thankyou for helping!!!!!

You are welcome

If you have any questions, I'll be glad to help you if I can

05-12-2007, 04:12 AM	#25 (permalink)
chryssanthi sahar Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Heidelberg, Germany Posts: 1,482	Hi Storm. Welcome to the Greek club Well, I am a Greek born and grown up in Greece, living in Germany for almost 28 years, but visiting Greece almost every second month (my parents and my whole family still live there and they don't intent to move anywhere else ) But, I can help you explaining the difference between Tsifteteli music and other Greeks musics. The key is the rhythm, as well as the instruments and the speed of the music. Since we have innumerable rhythms in the Greek music (and of course innumerable different types of songs and dances), it doesn't make sense to try to explain all different rhythms here ( and I couldn't do anyway, because of course I don't know all of them. I know just the very common ones, like Zeimbekiko, Chassaposerviko, Chassapiko, Kalamatiano, Syrto, Tsamiko, Sta Tria and some others. And...of course Tsifteteli). So I'll try to help you distinguish the Tsifteteli from all the other stuff. It is actually very simple: The majority of the Greek Tsifteteli songs has the Arabian rhythm Maqsoum ( 4/4, dum tak tak dum tak), mostly in middle speed, sometimes very quickly or very slow. In the old Tsifteteli songs the rhythm is usually produced by a single darbouka , sometimes by darbouka and Western drum, but sometimes by no percussion at all. In the later case the takt is kept by an instrument, mainly by the bouzouki. The modern Tsifteteli songs usually have darbouka and drum, or two and more darboukas (some time also other percussion instruments). Except Maqsoum rhythm, you find also Malfouf rhythm (2/2), but rather slow, not like in the Arabian music (there it is usually very quick) and in rare cases Chifteteli/Taksim rhythm (8/4. Very slow in this case) or even Saidi (4/4. Dum tak dum dum tak). The songs with Saidi rhythm are usually "stolen" from the Arabs, not really original Greek Tsifteteli songs. As about the instruments: the older Tsifteteli have Bouzouki, Baglama, sometimes Oud or even Santour. Many of the new ones don't have bouzouki and sound rather like an Oriental-Pop fusion. I hope, I was a bit helpful. Well, I suppose I could be helpful only if you know the Arabian rhythms I have mentioned. If you have more questions, please ask me. I'd be glad to help further __________________ Oriental dancer and instructor of Greek origin, living in Germany www.chryssanthi.com

05-13-2007, 12:54 AM	#26 (permalink)
Storm Junior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Logan City, Australia Posts: 15	Hi Chryssanthi, Thanks for trying to explain it to me .... Like I can here the difference when Im listening to it myself but I didnt know how to explain it to someone else .... I love the older Tsifteteli with the bouzouki ... I think think a lot of the newer stuff has lost something .. I mean its nice but its not quit the same ... Im starting to distinquish the different music between the turkish and egyptian BD .... Ive managed to D/L some stuff that I like and some I dont, its not really easy to find it online ... __________________ Today is the tomorrow you worried about yesterday .....

06-09-2007, 02:22 PM	#28 (permalink)
chryssanthi sahar Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Heidelberg, Germany Posts: 1,482	Hi Aziyde. Almost all of the songs on the CD are traditional Tsifteteli songs, all of them quite old (30ies to 7oies) and most of them very famous, the Greek Tsifteteli Classics so to say, in original version (therefore the quality of the sound is not so good some times). This means, that you can actually belly dance on almost all of them. Exceptions are: Nr. 5, 20 and 22, which have rather Mambo rhythm (Greek Mambo. Not to mix up with Latin American Mambo) and should be danced either as Greek Mambo or Syrtos (most Greeks cannot dance Mambo nowadays, that's why they usually dance Syrtos on songs with Mambo rhythm). Nr. 16 is clearly a Kasilamas (Karshlama) and it should be danced so. But even if you would belly dance on that songs it wouldn't be that bad, because Tsifteteli, Mambo and Kasilamas belong to the same dance group. None of the songs is Zeimbekiko, so no danger By the way, the first song is called "Ninanai Yavroum" and is originally Turkish (Shinanai Yavroum), but it is one of the most famous Greek Tsifteteli songs and the first song I've ever danced in my life at the age of one and a half My aunts used to put me on the table when I was a very small child, play (or sing) this song, clap in their hands and let me dance it. This is when I started my belly dance career The last song (me teleioses) is one of the most beautiful slow Tsifteteli songs. If you feel like dance on the floor on it, just do it __________________ Oriental dancer and instructor of Greek origin, living in Germany www.chryssanthi.com

05-11-2007, 06:11 AM	#21 (permalink)
Maria_Aya Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Athens, Greece Posts: 2,221	Heyyy I guess you are greek-aussie, i'm also lol (born Melbourn but living Athens many many years lol) xoxoo Welcome maria aya

06-08-2007, 07:56 PM	#27 (permalink)
Aziyade V.I.P. Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Cornfields of Evansville Indiana. Posts: 1,050	HELP! Okay, this CD set: Amazon.com: The Greek Belly Dance: Music: Various Artists #4 on disc one ""let's have fun" -- could one of you lovely experts tell me if this is an old folk dance, and if this song is okay to bellydance to? Or would this be an example of tsiftitelli dance music? How would you classify this song? What would you dance to it? I'm convinced I learned a folk dance to this song, but I can't find the notes !!!! Also, what is this rhythm? I hear it a lot on this CD set (which is GREAT fun to listen to!) THANKS!!!!!!!!!

06-10-2007, 04:43 PM	#29 (permalink)
chloe2007 Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Souhtport, England Posts: 20	OOOH this is really useful!!! I'm 1/4Greek Cypriot but mum's adopted so we don't practice anything Greek- but i am currently learning the language and wanted to know about Greek music and belly dance so thankyou for helping!!!!!