Question for Greeks: Zembetiko for BD?

Zorba · 02-12-2007, 10:44 PM

Question gia oi Ellhnikoi:

What do you think of Belly Dancing to Zembetiko songs?

Zembetiko songs are among the most beautiful of all Greek Music, there are a couple that I think would make very good Belly Dance routines. Granted, the odd Zembetiko rhythm would make it "interesting" to dance to, but not entirely alien to Belly Dance methinks...

Ti nomeizete;

-Zorba
"The Veiled Male"
Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

Maria_Aya · 02-13-2007, 06:58 AM

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!!

Zeimbekiko is a very soul dance, and have already suffered enough with the way its actualy danced from modern greeks.
Rarely these days we can see an old man dancing it with the way it should be danced.
It is total connected with the music, and the steps, and the feeling of the dance, and as philosophy its the total opposite of bellydance.
So NO NO NO !!!!
Nomizo kai pistevo (i think and i believe) OXI
And also, there is always the conversation about bellydance being a feminine dance etc all these things, but I believe its a men dance also.
On the opposite side, Zeibekiko is a man dance, and it should remain this way. When I see women dancing it, i feel eeeeerrrrr!!!! (having to say here that 2 of the best dancer's i've seen are women, my first teacher Kika and our own Chryssanthi) but again its wierd !!!

Maria Aya

Malek · 02-13-2007, 07:52 AM

Hello !!

(Maria help me with english)

Zeimbekiko is the esoteric pain of a man, against society, against the non fair things that happens into a mans life. It have roots to ancient greek dances, and it is considered a man's dance. Can not be choreographed but it have steps. The feeling have to be heavy, deep, esoteric.
In Greece until 25 years ago many times have been killings at night clubs because of zeibekiko. The person that wanted to dance had to pay the orchestra and order the zeimbekiko he wanted to dance. If someone else was going on stage the time of the dance, then it was reason for a big fight and murder.
Its famous the case of Koemtzis that happened 30 years ago, and on stage he pulled knife when 2 other men came to dance with him, and killed them. He wend to jail for 20 years and now he is out and he wrote a book about all this. And he is famous now

So its total different from bellydance that have more free spirit!!!

Malek

thanks Maraki

Aisha Azar · 02-13-2007, 03:53 PM

Dear Zorba,
Thank you so MUCH for caring enough about what you are doing to ask what is right and wrong. Many daers today care only about their own egos and would dance to the music if they want, without giving a thought to its meaning or spirit. I am so impressed by your integrity!!!

Maria and Malek,
Thank youfor caring enough about the culture and essence of your dances to explain why it is important not to dance to the wrong music. I love you both for that and hope that everyone sees how improtant it is to have the respect.

With resepct to you all,
A'isha

Zorba · 02-13-2007, 04:22 PM

Entaxi, entaxi - katalabainw!

Exaristw para polu! Egw den 8a xoreuw to Zembekiko musikh. How's that for bad Greek?

Actually, I had a private email who said it was "OK" if I remembered that it was a "warrior's dance" and danced with an invisible warrior alongside. In short it could be done to certain versions of the Zembekiko if I was careful.

Thoughts?

BTW, I've seen LOTS of women dance Zembekiko, even in Athens.

-Zorba
"The Veiled Male"
Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

Maria_Aya · 02-13-2007, 06:06 PM

Wow thats excelent greek Zorba !!!!!

Thanks Aisha for your words, but its just how can I say it, we love our dances and we care about them, can want to keem them also for the future nations as they were years and years ago (and yes ofcourse a traditional or cultural dance always evolve and its natural, but in the good way).
And yes Zorba, I also see all these women dancing zeibekiko and want to throw a glass of water on them lol

Maria Aya

chryssanthi sahar · 02-13-2007, 06:07 PM

Dear Zorba.

I also thank you for asking us, before you start dancing

And I also have to confirm what Maria and Nikos (Malek) said about it: NEVER NEVER NEVER DARE TO DANCE BELLY DANCE ON ZEIMBEKIKO!!!!

IT IS A SAKRILEG! Zeimbekiko is divine to the Greeks and you would offend every Greek, if you would dance anything else but the steps that belong to Zeimbekiko on it. Generally I wouldn't advise a foreigner (non Greek) to try to dance Zeimbekiko, except if he/she has really dealt a lot with it, has watched it many many times, speaks Greek well enough to understand the words of the songs and starts feeling the music deep inside. Sounds complicated? It is

As about women dancing Zeimbekiko: yes, today women definately dance Zeimbekiko ( I also belong to those passionate Zeimbekiko dancers and...believe me, I can dance it better than many men), although originally it was a men's dance. So in this case, it is the opposite to Tsifteteli, which originally was a women's dance, but today it is also danced by both sexes. But if I am honest, it is still a different feeling to watch a man who can dance Zeimbekia very well dancing it and the opposite is true for Tsifteteli. So although both dances have become unisex, they still have their male or female character.

Aisha Azar · 02-13-2007, 08:06 PM

Dear Group,
I think that it is easy to see the passion and feeling with which our Greek dancers here on the Forum approach their own dances.... and how they want to see them treated with care and respect.
We have to keep in mind that everyone feels this way about their dances, and that is why it is so sad when we refer to things as "belly dance" that are not, or "Rom" when it is not, or "Khaliji" when it is not. Giving dance its due is how we show respect and love for what we are doing, and at the same time remind ourselves the dances' cultural identities. Without that, they are not the dances!!
Regards,
A'isha

Zorba · 02-13-2007, 08:25 PM

I have never made a serious try at dancing the Zembekiko as I really don't understand it. PhilHellene though I may be, I don't grok the dance enough to be able to dance it. Some old Greek guy, cigarette hanging out of one corner of his mouth may put down his Metaxa or Ouzo and get up and dance it - and its well worth watching!

Maria - Ta ellhinika mou den einai polu kala, mono kala arketa - sometimes! Have you ever been to Aleka's Taberna? Its up high on the side of Akropolis, I forget the street, its one with a bunch of steps and starts with an 'M'. Hike up from Metropolitan square, the street next to "Cafe Ithaki", cross Apollonos, do that funny little jig at Adrianou, and keep going up the hill and to the right.

You can see lots of good dancing there late at nite and a fair number of women Zembekiko dancers to throw your wine glass at!

-Zorba
"The Veiled Male"
Zorba, "The Veiled Male"

chryssanthi sahar · 02-14-2007, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorba

You can see lots of good dancing there late at nite and a fair number of women Zembekiko dancers to throw your wine glass at!

[/url]

You can see lots of women dancing Zeimbekiko everywhere

In every bouzoukia club, every rembetiko tavern, every party. Today it has become very normal, but the energy is different, if men dance it, but they have to dance it well. Because there are women who dance better Zeimbekiko than the average man. Me for example

(And as you know "modesty" is my second name

)

02-12-2007, 10:44 PM	#1 (permalink)
Zorba Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 857	Question for Greeks: Zembetiko for BD? Question gia oi Ellhnikoi: What do you think of Belly Dancing to Zembetiko songs? Zembetiko songs are among the most beautiful of all Greek Music, there are a couple that I think would make very good Belly Dance routines. Granted, the odd Zembetiko rhythm would make it "interesting" to dance to, but not entirely alien to Belly Dance methinks... Ti nomeizete; -Zorba "The Veiled Male" Zorba, "The Veiled Male" Last edited by Zorba; 02-12-2007 at 10:49 PM.

02-13-2007, 03:53 PM	#4 (permalink)
Aisha Azar V.I.P. Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Pacific Northwest USA Posts: 4,464	Greek, etc. Dear Zorba, Thank you so MUCH for caring enough about what you are doing to ask what is right and wrong. Many daers today care only about their own egos and would dance to the music if they want, without giving a thought to its meaning or spirit. I am so impressed by your integrity!!! Maria and Malek, Thank youfor caring enough about the culture and essence of your dances to explain why it is important not to dance to the wrong music. I love you both for that and hope that everyone sees how improtant it is to have the respect. With resepct to you all, A'isha

02-13-2007, 04:22 PM	#5 (permalink)
Zorba Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 857	Entaxi, entaxi - katalabainw! Exaristw para polu! Egw den 8a xoreuw to Zembekiko musikh. How's that for bad Greek? Actually, I had a private email who said it was "OK" if I remembered that it was a "warrior's dance" and danced with an invisible warrior alongside. In short it could be done to certain versions of the Zembekiko if I was careful. Thoughts? BTW, I've seen LOTS of women dance Zembekiko, even in Athens. -Zorba "The Veiled Male" Zorba, "The Veiled Male" Last edited by Zorba; 02-13-2007 at 04:53 PM.

02-13-2007, 06:07 PM	#7 (permalink)
chryssanthi sahar Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Heidelberg, Germany Posts: 1,482	Dear Zorba. I also thank you for asking us, before you start dancing And I also have to confirm what Maria and Nikos (Malek) said about it: NEVER NEVER NEVER DARE TO DANCE BELLY DANCE ON ZEIMBEKIKO!!!! IT IS A SAKRILEG! Zeimbekiko is divine to the Greeks and you would offend every Greek, if you would dance anything else but the steps that belong to Zeimbekiko on it. Generally I wouldn't advise a foreigner (non Greek) to try to dance Zeimbekiko, except if he/she has really dealt a lot with it, has watched it many many times, speaks Greek well enough to understand the words of the songs and starts feeling the music deep inside. Sounds complicated? It is As about women dancing Zeimbekiko: yes, today women definately dance Zeimbekiko ( I also belong to those passionate Zeimbekiko dancers and...believe me, I can dance it better than many men), although originally it was a men's dance. So in this case, it is the opposite to Tsifteteli, which originally was a women's dance, but today it is also danced by both sexes. But if I am honest, it is still a different feeling to watch a man who can dance Zeimbekia very well dancing it and the opposite is true for Tsifteteli. So although both dances have become unisex, they still have their male or female character. __________________ Oriental dancer and instructor of Greek origin, living in Germany www.chryssanthi.com

02-13-2007, 08:06 PM	#8 (permalink)
Aisha Azar V.I.P. Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Pacific Northwest USA Posts: 4,464	Dance, etc. Dear Group, I think that it is easy to see the passion and feeling with which our Greek dancers here on the Forum approach their own dances.... and how they want to see them treated with care and respect. We have to keep in mind that everyone feels this way about their dances, and that is why it is so sad when we refer to things as "belly dance" that are not, or "Rom" when it is not, or "Khaliji" when it is not. Giving dance its due is how we show respect and love for what we are doing, and at the same time remind ourselves the dances' cultural identities. Without that, they are not the dances!! Regards, A'isha

02-13-2007, 06:58 AM	#2 (permalink)
Maria_Aya Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Athens, Greece Posts: 2,221	NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!! Zeimbekiko is a very soul dance, and have already suffered enough with the way its actualy danced from modern greeks. Rarely these days we can see an old man dancing it with the way it should be danced. It is total connected with the music, and the steps, and the feeling of the dance, and as philosophy its the total opposite of bellydance. So NO NO NO !!!! Nomizo kai pistevo (i think and i believe) OXI And also, there is always the conversation about bellydance being a feminine dance etc all these things, but I believe its a men dance also. On the opposite side, Zeibekiko is a man dance, and it should remain this way. When I see women dancing it, i feel eeeeerrrrr!!!! (having to say here that 2 of the best dancer's i've seen are women, my first teacher Kika and our own Chryssanthi) but again its wierd !!! Maria Aya

02-13-2007, 07:52 AM	#3 (permalink)
Malek Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Greece CRETE !!!! Posts: 15	Hello !! (Maria help me with english) Zeimbekiko is the esoteric pain of a man, against society, against the non fair things that happens into a mans life. It have roots to ancient greek dances, and it is considered a man's dance. Can not be choreographed but it have steps. The feeling have to be heavy, deep, esoteric. In Greece until 25 years ago many times have been killings at night clubs because of zeibekiko. The person that wanted to dance had to pay the orchestra and order the zeimbekiko he wanted to dance. If someone else was going on stage the time of the dance, then it was reason for a big fight and murder. Its famous the case of Koemtzis that happened 30 years ago, and on stage he pulled knife when 2 other men came to dance with him, and killed them. He wend to jail for 20 years and now he is out and he wrote a book about all this. And he is famous now So its total different from bellydance that have more free spirit!!! Malek thanks Maraki

02-13-2007, 06:06 PM	#6 (permalink)
Maria_Aya Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Athens, Greece Posts: 2,221	Wow thats excelent greek Zorba !!!!! Thanks Aisha for your words, but its just how can I say it, we love our dances and we care about them, can want to keem them also for the future nations as they were years and years ago (and yes ofcourse a traditional or cultural dance always evolve and its natural, but in the good way). And yes Zorba, I also see all these women dancing zeibekiko and want to throw a glass of water on them lol Maria Aya

02-13-2007, 08:25 PM	#9 (permalink)
Zorba Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 857	I have never made a serious try at dancing the Zembekiko as I really don't understand it. PhilHellene though I may be, I don't grok the dance enough to be able to dance it. Some old Greek guy, cigarette hanging out of one corner of his mouth may put down his Metaxa or Ouzo and get up and dance it - and its well worth watching! Maria - Ta ellhinika mou den einai polu kala, mono kala arketa - sometimes! Have you ever been to Aleka's Taberna? Its up high on the side of Akropolis, I forget the street, its one with a bunch of steps and starts with an 'M'. Hike up from Metropolitan square, the street next to "Cafe Ithaki", cross Apollonos, do that funny little jig at Adrianou, and keep going up the hill and to the right. You can see lots of good dancing there late at nite and a fair number of women Zembekiko dancers to throw your wine glass at! -Zorba "The Veiled Male" Zorba, "The Veiled Male"